Why Do We Christians Have Christmas Trees When God Condemned the Christmas Tree In Jeremiah 10:1-15

[DaveW]

1 hour ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bro. Dave, Bro Mike did not say it was like being a drunk. He said doing those things was like the "activities" of a drunk. The activities of a drunk are nonsense, silly, offensive, etc. Just imagine putting your socks on a mantel and expecting some entity to magically fill them after sliding down your chimney.   

I understand, but it is offensive. He IS effectively saying that if you put up a tree and hang stocking for Christmas then are you are a drunk.

It is offensive, and there is not really any link between the two concepts.

 

For the record, I personally don't like Christmas trees, and our kids were told the truth about Christmas from the earliest of times. They also know about Santa, because we have unsaved relatives who asked them what Santa brought them etc - We always told them to play along in case another child was there who did believe.

[No Nicolaitans]

9 hours ago, DaveW said:

Hey NN - I am also a bit worried because we have a silver serving platter which was the work of a workman, just like the tree........ where do you think I stand with that? (It is not real silver by the way, we can't afford that - I think it is played. Does that make it OK?)

                

Well, my wife put up a 12" white ceramic christmas tree on our kitchen counter. I guess we're okay? 

This is my opinion, and my opinion is worthless...but I think too often, we look for boogeymen in too many places. If someone is against a Christmas tree, that's fine...I understand. If someone is fine with a Christmas tree, that's fine...I understand. Just as Paul was inspired to write about observing certain days, my opinion (which is worthless) about this is the same...

Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

[Invicta]

But is it OK for us to celebrate Christmas in the first place?

[Ukulelemike]

20 hours ago, DaveW said:

I understand, but it is offensive. He IS effectively saying that if you put up a tree and hang stocking for Christmas then are you are a drunk.

It is offensive, and there is not really any link between the two concepts.

 

For the record, I personally don't like Christmas trees, and our kids were told the truth about Christmas from the earliest of times. They also know about Santa, because we have unsaved relatives who asked them what Santa brought them etc - We always told them to play along in case another child was there who did believe.

In fact, I did not say that. My point was, if one was looking from the outside at this ritual, knowing nothing about it, it would seem like something someone drunk would do: 

"I'm gonna take these lights from inside and put them outside! Then I'm gonna take this tree from OUTSIDE and out in in my living room! Now, I think I'll hang up my socks over the fire, in case an old man comes down the chimney with toys!"  Seriously, this doesn't sound like the actions of a man who has had one too many?

[DaveW]

Yep - I often sit across the road from a bar and the number of drunks who come out and cut down a tree to decorate it is astounding......

It was and is an offensive correlation.

Drunks get loud, aggressive, depressed, or profane, but they don't go on redecorating sprees.

[weary warrior]

So, to sum it all up and answer the original question, Christians have Christmas trees in spite of Jeremiah 10 mostly because they WANT Christmas trees. Its that simple. I want a Christmas tree. Id like a Christmas tree. My last name literally is Noel. But scripture, without twisting, justifying, stretching and excusing says quite simply that God dont like it. So I suck it up and dont have one.

They preach against smoking, (not in the Bible) because they don't WANT smoking, ( body is a temple) but won't preach against Diet Coke, fried chicken and gluttony (which IS in the Bible) because they DO love to eat till they're bloated and fat. (I guess the body is no longer a temple?) See how it works?

They preach against long hair on men, which is never actually defined scriptually, but say nothing of the short hair often sported by their own wives,  again, neither defined in scripture. I'm offending them, I know, but I'm so tired of the self-righteous double standard of it all. Of all of us.

The church member is supposed to work a full time job, raise a family and drag themselves to every service the pastor decides to schedule, (NOT in scripture, I don't care how we twist and justify ourselves ) but how many pastors spend hours every week on their face, literally, in their office weeping and praying for those saints? (IS in scripture).

The answer is that your average IFB is no different from anyone else. We will usually find a way to make scripture fit what we want it to fit.

We will see who yelps the loudest. But I got a pretty good idea already. It's always the same ones. I just don't care anymore.

[No Nicolaitans]

How many of us do this?

Deuteronomy 11:18-21

18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:

21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

 

I've been a Christian a long time...and I've been in many Christian's homes, but I've never once visited a Christian's home where they had God's word written on their door posts...never seen it written on their gates either (if they had one). Not to mention the fact that I don't know of any Christian who has taught their children God's word throughout each day...every day of every month of every year. Are we also accountable for that like we are about Christmas trees?

[No Nicolaitans]

11 hours ago, Invicta said:

But is it OK for us to celebrate Christmas in the first place?

 

On 12/31/2019 at 4:02 AM, No Nicolaitans said:

Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

In the area in which I live...if you were to ask the vast majority of people what the purpose of Christmas is...they would answer that it's to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.

This year (at the commonly recognized time of Christmas), our son...who is 9 years old...wanted us to make a birthday cake for the Lord Jesus Christ. He didn't just ask; he begged us to.

Did I scold him, make him feel like it was a sin, and tell him what a heretic he was for wanting to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ? No. No I didn't. I was proud of him.

So, we made a cake, decorated it, and celebrated the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ who was born into the world to save sinners. Then, we prayed together as a family on Christmas day...thanking the Father for making a way for us to be reconciled unto him through Christ.

[No Nicolaitans]

4 hours ago, weary warrior said:

But scripture, without twisting, justifying, stretching and excusing

Who twisted what scripture? Earlier, I compared scripture with scripture. Isn't that what we should do?

Good grief man...does it take a "workman" to chop down a tree? Does it take a "workman" to set it upright?

Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can do that.

However, it takes an actual "workman" to make something from the tree that he has chopped down.

I guess it doesn't matter that they worshipped it...right?

I guess it doesn't matter that it was their idol...right?

I guess it doesn't matter that they believed it could bless them or curse them...right?

You say you're tired of the self-righteous double standard of it all, but here you are dealing out the same. 

If a moderator wants to remove this comment, that's fine...I understand. However, you may be tired of it all, but you're tiredness doesn't compare to mine. I actually agree with you on some things.

...and if I "yelped the loudest", so be it. I don't give 2 cents whether someone has a tree in their house during "Christmas". What I do care about is whether someone accepts a legend...and uses that to condemn others...instead of comparing scripture with scripture.

...but that's me.

I'll never post in one of these stupid click-bait threads again.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

7 hours ago, weary warrior said:

So, to sum it all up and answer the original question, Christians have Christmas trees in spite of Jeremiah 10 mostly because they WANT Christmas trees. Its that simple. I want a Christmas tree. Id like a Christmas tree. My last name literally is Noel. But scripture, without twisting, justifying, stretching and excusing says quite simply that God dont like it. So I suck it up and dont have one. (emphasis added by Pastor Scott Markle)

Ah, but this report is wherein the incorrect estimation lies.  Actually, some Christians have Christmas trees "in spite of Jeremiah 10" because they do NOT believe that Jeremiah 10:1-16 is talking about Christmas trees, but that it is talking about idols formed and carved from trees.  They are not seeking to stand in stubborn disobedience against the Lord.  Rather, they simply do not believe that this passage at all reveals our Lord's viewpoint concerning Christmas trees, but only His viewpoint concerning idols.  They believe this because of the statements made throughout the WHOLE context of Jeremiah 10:1-16 -- 

"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They [the heathen people] deck it with silver and with gold; they [the heathen people] fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They [the things made from the trees, decked with silver and gold] are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they [the things made from the trees, decked with silver and gold] must needs be borne, because they [the things made from the trees, decked with silver and gold] cannot go. Be not afraid of them [the things made from the trees, decked with silver and gold]; for they [the things made from the trees, decked with silver and gold] cannot do evil, neither also is it in them [the things made from the trees, decked with silver and gold] to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee. But they [the heathen people] are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock [the thing made from the tree, decked with silver and gold] is a doctrine of vanities. Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their [the things made from the trees] clothing: they [the things made from the trees] are all the work of cunning men. But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them [in the graven image made from the tree]. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish. The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name."

Take notice of the word "vain" in verse 3, the word "vanities" in verse 8, and the word "vanity" in verse 15, which all help to tie this entire context together. 

Certainly, I agree that there is much hypocrisy within the Fundamentalist movement; and it grieves my heart deeply.  (Although it is also likely that there is yet such hypocrisy within my own heart to which I remain blind.)  However, when we Biblically assess the position of others on a matter, it behooves us to do so with as precise accuracy as possible. 

(There, I have finally contributed to this thread discussion.)

[No Nicolaitans]

On 12/31/2019 at 5:36 PM, Invicta said:

But is it OK for us to celebrate Christmas in the first place?

I'm not the person to ask.

It may help to ask the multitude of heavenly hosts who celebrated his birth.

It may help to ask John the Baptist who leapt in the womb.

It may help to ask Abraham, who rejoiced to see his day.

It may help to ask the wise men or shepherds.

It may help to ask Mary or Elizabeth.

It may help to ask Gabriele.

Though you shouldn't ask me, it seems like there was a lot of celebrating going on concerning Christ's birth...

Sorry, I don't mean to be facetious, but this topic is out of control. Folks read a verse or two, and they assign a Christmas tree to it without reading the whole context...and without comparing scriptures...and automatically anyone who dares celebrate Christ's birth...and heaven forbid they should put up a Christmas tree...is a heathen and doesn't know what "God says about it". LOLOLOLOLOL!!! 

I think the one or two verser's need to step back and take a look at what they're promoting instead of condemning others.

I'm really glad and impressed that the person who started this thread has been "active" in it since it's his/her thread. I hope he's/she's happy with stirring the pot. Hope he/she has gotten a few good laughs out of it.

As I said before, we (used loosely) look for too many boogeymen in too many places. If a person doesn't want to celebrate Christ's birth, so be it. It they do, so be it.

I, for one, am extremely glad and thankful that Christ was born into the world to save sinners...and I celebrate that fact...and no one is going to shame me into submission for doing so, because they have a verse or two taken out of context.

Finally, yes I know that I haven't acted the best in this thread, but when I'm accused of twisting scripture...when I don't even give a flip about a Christmas tree...it kind of gets under my skin.

If I've offended anyone or set a bad example, I apologize.

[Invicta]

I am not offended.

 

I tend to follow Spurgeon on the subject in his commentary on Psalm 81, in The Treasury of David

Verse 3. Blow up the trumpet in the new moon. Announce the sacred month, the beginning of months, when the Lord brought his people out of the house of bondage. Clear and shrill let the summons be which calls all Israel to adore the Redeeming Lord. In the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. Obedience is to direct our worship, not whim and sentiment: God's appointment gives a solemnity to rites and times which no ceremonial pomp or hierarchical ordinance could confer. The Jews not only observed the ordained month, but that part of the month which had been divinely set apart. The Lord's people in the olden time welcomed the times appointed for worship; let us feel the same exultation, and never speak of the Sabbath as though it could be other than "a delight" and "honourable." Those who plead this passage will keep such feasts as the Lord appoints, but not those which Rome or Canterbury may ordain.

Verse 4. For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob. It was a precept binding upon all the tribes that a sacred season should be set apart to commemorate the Lord's mercy; and truly it was but the Lord's due, he had a right and a claim to such special homage. When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, "Is this a law of the God of Jacob?" and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty.

http://archive.spurgeon.org/treasury/ps081.php

 

[LYDIA WESTERN]

On 12/27/2019 at 6:28 AM, PastorMatt said:

I have come to the same conclusion that the context of this passage is talking about worshiping idols.  While I respect those that hold to a no tree conviction, I disagree with it. I hear a lot about the paganism of it and that part I get, but I have yet to see someone not have tree because of its pagan background and hold that same conviction with our current calendar.... and don't get me started on the cross. 

Lol Yes, I think I agree. Although, maybe Jeremiah was just saying that gold covered Christmas trees were not acceptable for the Christmas celebration. I wonder if they had turkey for Christmas dinner or maybe it was goat as a sort of middle eastern adaption to the Roman Catholic version of Christmas, or the American version of Christmas.

[Invicta]

On 2/22/2020 at 11:26 AM, LYDIA WESTERN said:

Lol Yes, I think I agree. Although, maybe Jeremiah was just saying that gold covered Christmas trees were not acceptable for the Christmas celebration. I wonder if they had turkey for Christmas dinner or maybe it was goat as a sort of middle eastern adaption to the Roman Catholic version of Christmas, or the American version of Christmas.

There  was no Christmas in Jeremiah's day.

[LYDIA WESTERN]

2 hours ago, Invicta said:

There  was no Christmas in Jeremiah's day.

I know, miss. Or Mr. I’m being dry,sarcastic. Australian dead pan humour.