No Wonder The Mormons Like C.S. Lewis!!

[OLD fashioned preacher]

One thing I'm seeing (and it is a common thing today) is that many times people use THE MOVIE (no matter which book it is based off of) to determine what a writer teaches or believers - instead of the writers WRITING. The oft heard comment used to be "I enjoyed the movie, but it wasn't quite as good as the book". The reason is that producers take liberties with the book in order to make more TV viewable (just like certain modification have to be made to make some songs fit guitar, banjo, or whatever - stylisticly). Read the book and you will find out what the author intends for it to teach.

[HappyChristian]

And to finish the quote:

focusing on the Christ-like talking lion who is killed but comes back to life.

[Guest Guest]

One thing I'm seeing (and it is a common thing today) is that many times people use THE MOVIE (no matter which book it is based off of) to determine what a writer teaches or believers - instead of the writers WRITING. The oft heard comment used to be "I enjoyed the movie' date=' but it wasn't quite as good as the book". The reason is that producers take liberties with the book in order to make more TV viewable (just like certain modification have to be made to make some songs fit guitar, banjo, or whatever - stylisticly). Read the book and you will find out what the author intends for it to teach.[/quote']

I understand that, but what makes it wrong to read a fictional book written by an author you don't totally agree with? If a person is mature enough to understand that it's fiction, and the book doesn't promote something immoral or cause you to think about something wicked, what's the problem?

[tired]

The main thing is that Lewis was a confused man. Some of his writings can fit into what we think. Others are way off. Just like a false teacher who has some truth mixed with major error. We need to watch out. I read some books by people who do not believe exactly the way I do. We need to see if the teachings line up but also if the mans life also lines up. Lewis's writings as a whole do not line up and his life was way off. A mix of evangelical teachings some years and rcc teachings the next. There are many rumors of affairs drunkeness and drug use. I can't get teaching from people like this.

[HappyChristian]

Ok, so some wacked people do worship Aslan... I just never heard of that before.

But that doesn't make anyone who watches the movie an Aslan-worshipper.

Kathie - no-one said it did! One comment you made was that it is fiction. Yes, it is. But you know, many, many people believe even fiction. When Davinci Code came out, I was astounded by the people who believed that it was true. My co-workers and my patrons alike! Christianity has become so diluted today that things like this (Davinci Code) and others (like Narnia) are accepted as illustrating gospel truths or even teaching literal truths. That article Al referenced ends with

While it is not an overtly Christian film - many of its characters are drawn from pagan mythology - its symbolism mirrors much of the Gospel story.

Pagan mythology used to symbolize the Gospel? Can't you see how that is mixing good with evil and calling it all good?

As far as reading a questionable book...there are so many good books available - do we as Christians need to read the questionable ones for entertainment? For study and for work, I could see it to a degree - but don't kid yourself - we are affected by every thing we put into our mind.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Not totally agreeing with someone is one thing, condoning a book for your kids which is supposed to be a religious allegory and teaches blatant heresy concerning acceptance into heaven is quite another.

[Palatka51]

2 Timothy 4
1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

[Guest Guest]

I'm gonna leave this thread alone now. I really don't care much about this topic, and it's no one else's business what books I read or movies I watch in my free time. I'll just have to agree to disagree with y'all....

[John81]

I'm gonna leave this thread alone now. I really don't care much about this topic' date=' and it's no one else's business what books I read or movies I watch in my free time. I'll just have to agree to disagree with y'all....[/quote']

:sad

[Salyan]

You know, I love Narnia. Or is that loved? I've always enjoyed fantasy/science fiction. Sometimes the books/movies I indulged in were better than others and sometimes they were worse, but Narnia always topped my list of favorites as one of the 'better' ones (along with LOTR). I considered it to be allegorical fiction -- some Christian message, but mostly just a fun read (or watch -- I had the older movies and really enjoyed the first of this new batch.) And I knew the difference between fiction and fact! So what was the matter if it had some pagan mythology mixed in?

However, recently I finally had to choose to give up most of my fantasy reading -- including Narnia. Why? Because I finally realized that it was not honoring to God. I'm not writing this to sound 'holier-than-thou.' It was a really hard decision to make (and yes, I know that choosing to honor God should not be a hard decision, but I'm still human and I really did love that series), and I want to share why I now believe that Narnia is not something Christians should indulge themselves with. By the way, I have read the books countless times, and watched the various movie versions as well (except the new Prince Caspian), so I am familiar with the contents.

1. Pagan mythology
Whoever of y'all has read the books know that they are full of dryads, nyaids, fauns, and other various forms of Greek mythology. This never used to bother me. However, these are not just 'walking trees' and 'living waters.' Lewis refers to them in his books as 'tree-gods,' 'tree-goddesses', the 'river-god and his daughters.' They are actually called gods in a matter-of-fact way -- as if it is quite natural to have multiple gods. Whatever happened to "thou shalt have no other gods before Me?" Lewis had a huge interest in pagan religion. He believed that Christianity could find its roots in the old pagan religions.
In Prince Caspian (the book), there is also a scene where Bacchus comes to celebrate a victory with the children and Aslan. I had always overlooked this. If you look him up, the worship of this false god (historically, he isn't called a god in the books) was always accompanied by orgies and immorality. According to Wikipedia, he was the god of wine, and the patron of ritual madness and ecstasy. The excesses of his worshippers actually caused the Roman Senate to forbid the worship of this demon.

2. Astrology/Crystal-gazing
This is in Prince Caspian (the book). Caspian's tutor tells him that the times will be changing. He has learned this information from watching 'the great lords of the sky.' I've read these books many times, and completely missed this reference to astrology. The tutor also makes reference to information learned while crystal-gazing.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11. "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination [includes crystal gazing], or an observer of times [astrology], or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer."

3. False Biblical History
At one point in the series, the history of the witches is discussed. Aslan tells the children that the witches are descended form 'Adam's first wife,' the one he apparently had before he married Eve! I think it's the The Magician's Nephew, but my memory isn't quite sure. I wonder how many Biblically-illiterate readers will think that Adam, if he existed, really did have a wife before Eve? What was it that that last chapter of Revelation said about adding to the Word of God?

4. Witchcraft/Magic
These books are filled with references to witchcraft and magic. In The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Lucy is reading a book of spells -- charms (again, Deut. 18:11). She casts one of them to restore the people of an island from invisibility. Aslan himself is revealed when the spell is lifted, but not a word is heard against her act of charming. The magician of the island who has enchanted them (look, there's another reference to Deuteronomy) is a servant of Aslan's.
When Christians try to allegorize Narnia, they look at the slaying of Aslan at the Stone Table as a type of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Yet in Narnia, this event is mixed with magic. References are made to the 'deep magic.' This magic apparently controls even Aslan, as we find out from the above-mentioned invisibility episode in VDT, when he was subject to the limitations of the magician's spell.
The White Witch of The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe, the Green Witch of The Silver Chair, the Hag and Werewolf of Prince Caspian (who suggest the calling up of the White Witch from the dead -- necromancy). I recognize that these are the 'bad guys,' but why is it necessary for us, as Christians, to be reading about witches? They exist, but why must we fill our minds with them? This is the reason I have decided to stop reading/watching all fantasy fiction that includes witches or magic (which is most of it). The Israelites were instructed not to 'suffer a witch to live' in Israel. Why should we suffer them to live in our imaginations? Or the imaginations of our children? I was never tempted to imitate the magical part of my readings as a child, but I imitated a lot of other stories. How am I to know that my children, if allowed to read the same books, will not choose to imitate the magic?

5. Dangerous False Doctrine
Someone else has mentioned the scene about Tash, Aslan and the Calormene in The Last Battle. This is a fictional book, but the false teaching here is so subtly mixed with what appears to be truth, that it is a dangerous idea to have enter one's mind. Isn't a half-truth more dangerous than a lie?
Galatians 1:8. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."


I hope this post isn't too long. I'm not trying to put down anyone who enjoys the movies/books (I probably still would if I watched/read them again). It's just that, no matter how much we may like them, they include elements that we should separate ourselves from -- even as fiction. They are not allegorical. Even if they were meant to be, the amount of false teaching would make them even more dangerous -- think The DaVinci Code.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17. "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you."

[Jerry]

I'm gonna leave this thread alone now. I really don't care much about this topic' date=' and it's no one else's business what books I read or movies I watch in my free time.[/quote']

What you endorse or publically promote on these boards is our business.

Lewis' fiction books were used by him (and many so-called Christians) to teach his theology through stories. Either way, fiction that contradicts the truth is just as demonic and false as an outright theological book that contradicts the truth. It doesn't become better because we are being entertained by falsehoods - in fact, the Bible quite clearly teaches that what we do in our hearts, we are guilty of before God. If we are lusting in our hearts, we are guilty of adultery. If we hate our brothers in our hearts, we are guilty of murder. If we are entertained by paganism, the occult, and magic, then we are guilty of it - and need to repent of it just as much as a professing Christian needs to repent of violent movies or movies containing sex scenes. Evil is evil.

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Right on, Salyan. Another poster reminded me of something else: In The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe, Lewis' characters partake of hashish (Turkish delight) - plus all through his series, he has characters drinking and drunken revelry. And, as someone pointed out, it was in Prince Caspian where Bacchus was mentioned. He is portrayed as frolicking with naked nymphs (can't remember if it was dryads, or whatever other kind of fairy) - and (I think it is) Lucy gets offended at the immorality going on, and she is basically told that is acceptable in Narnia. No, I don't have the book handy - but it would be very easy for anyone who does to type up that portion of the book for all here to read.

[John81]

You know, I love Narnia. Or is that loved? I've always enjoyed fantasy/science fiction. Sometimes the books/movies I indulged in were better than others and sometimes they were worse, but Narnia always topped my list of favorites as one of the 'better' ones (along with LOTR). I considered it to be allegorical fiction -- some Christian message, but mostly just a fun read (or watch -- I had the older movies and really enjoyed the first of this new batch.) And I knew the difference between fiction and fact! So what was the matter if it had some pagan mythology mixed in?

However, recently I finally had to choose to give up most of my fantasy reading -- including Narnia. Why? Because I finally realized that it was not honoring to God. I'm not writing this to sound 'holier-than-thou.' It was a really hard decision to make (and yes, I know that choosing to honor God should not be a hard decision, but I'm still human and I really did love that series), and I want to share why I now believe that Narnia is not something Christians should indulge themselves with. By the way, I have read the books countless times, and watched the various movie versions as well (except the new Prince Caspian), so I am familiar with the contents.

1. Pagan mythology
Whoever of y'all has read the books know that they are full of dryads, nyaids, fauns, and other various forms of Greek mythology. This never used to bother me. However, these are not just 'walking trees' and 'living waters.' Lewis refers to them in his books as 'tree-gods,' 'tree-goddesses', the 'river-god and his daughters.' They are actually called gods in a matter-of-fact way -- as if it is quite natural to have multiple gods. Whatever happened to "thou shalt have no other gods before Me?" Lewis had a huge interest in pagan religion. He believed that Christianity could find its roots in the old pagan religions.
In Prince Caspian (the book), there is also a scene where Bacchus comes to celebrate a victory with the children and Aslan. I had always overlooked this. If you look him up, the worship of this false god (historically, he isn't called a god in the books) was always accompanied by orgies and immorality. According to Wikipedia, he was the god of wine, and the patron of ritual madness and ecstasy. The excesses of his worshippers actually caused the Roman Senate to forbid the worship of this demon.

2. Astrology/Crystal-gazing
This is in Prince Caspian (the book). Caspian's tutor tells him that the times will be changing. He has learned this information from watching 'the great lords of the sky.' I've read these books many times, and completely missed this reference to astrology. The tutor also makes reference to information learned while crystal-gazing.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11. "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination [includes crystal gazing], or an observer of times [astrology], or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer."

3. False Biblical History
At one point in the series, the history of the witches is discussed. Aslan tells the children that the witches are descended form 'Adam's first wife,' the one he apparently had before he married Eve! I think it's the The Magician's Nephew, but my memory isn't quite sure. I wonder how many Biblically-illiterate readers will think that Adam, if he existed, really did have a wife before Eve? What was it that that last chapter of Revelation said about adding to the Word of God?

4. Witchcraft/Magic
These books are filled with references to witchcraft and magic. In The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Lucy is reading a book of spells -- charms (again, Deut. 18:11). She casts one of them to restore the people of an island from invisibility. Aslan himself is revealed when the spell is lifted, but not a word is heard against her act of charming. The magician of the island who has enchanted them (look, there's another reference to Deuteronomy) is a servant of Aslan's.
When Christians try to allegorize Narnia, they look at the slaying of Aslan at the Stone Table as a type of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Yet in Narnia, this event is mixed with magic. References are made to the 'deep magic.' This magic apparently controls even Aslan, as we find out from the above-mentioned invisibility episode in VDT, when he was subject to the limitations of the magician's spell.
The White Witch of The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe, the Green Witch of The Silver Chair, the Hag and Werewolf of Prince Caspian (who suggest the calling up of the White Witch from the dead -- necromancy). I recognize that these are the 'bad guys,' but why is it necessary for us, as Christians, to be reading about witches? They exist, but why must we fill our minds with them? This is the reason I have decided to stop reading/watching all fantasy fiction that includes witches or magic (which is most of it). The Israelites were instructed not to 'suffer a witch to live' in Israel. Why should we suffer them to live in our imaginations? Or the imaginations of our children? I was never tempted to imitate the magical part of my readings as a child, but I imitated a lot of other stories. How am I to know that my children, if allowed to read the same books, will not choose to imitate the magic?

5. Dangerous False Doctrine
Someone else has mentioned the scene about Tash, Aslan and the Calormene in The Last Battle. This is a fictional book, but the false teaching here is so subtly mixed with what appears to be truth, that it is a dangerous idea to have enter one's mind. Isn't a half-truth more dangerous than a lie?
Galatians 1:8. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."


I hope this post isn't too long. I'm not trying to put down anyone who enjoys the movies/books (I probably still would if I watched/read them again). It's just that, no matter how much we may like them, they include elements that we should separate ourselves from -- even as fiction. They are not allegorical. Even if they were meant to be, the amount of false teaching would make them even more dangerous -- think The DaVinci Code.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17. "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you."

I know of what you speak as I used to read such things in my youth but thankfully the Lord turned me away from these many years ago.

[Palatka51]

You know, I love Narnia. Or is that loved? I've always enjoyed fantasy/science fiction. Sometimes the books/movies I indulged in were better than others and sometimes they were worse, but Narnia always topped my list of favorites as one of the 'better' ones (along with LOTR). I considered it to be allegorical fiction -- some Christian message, but mostly just a fun read (or watch -- I had the older movies and really enjoyed the first of this new batch.) And I knew the difference between fiction and fact! So what was the matter if it had some pagan mythology mixed in?

However, recently I finally had to choose to give up most of my fantasy reading -- including Narnia. Why? Because I finally realized that it was not honoring to God. I'm not writing this to sound 'holier-than-thou.' It was a really hard decision to make (and yes, I know that choosing to honor God should not be a hard decision, but I'm still human and I really did love that series), and I want to share why I now believe that Narnia is not something Christians should indulge themselves with. By the way, I have read the books countless times, and watched the various movie versions as well (except the new Prince Caspian), so I am familiar with the contents.

1. Pagan mythology
Whoever of y'all has read the books know that they are full of dryads, nyaids, fauns, and other various forms of Greek mythology. This never used to bother me. However, these are not just 'walking trees' and 'living waters.' Lewis refers to them in his books as 'tree-gods,' 'tree-goddesses', the 'river-god and his daughters.' They are actually called gods in a matter-of-fact way -- as if it is quite natural to have multiple gods. Whatever happened to "thou shalt have no other gods before Me?" Lewis had a huge interest in pagan religion. He believed that Christianity could find its roots in the old pagan religions.
In Prince Caspian (the book), there is also a scene where Bacchus comes to celebrate a victory with the children and Aslan. I had always overlooked this. If you look him up, the worship of this false god (historically, he isn't called a god in the books) was always accompanied by orgies and immorality. According to Wikipedia, he was the god of wine, and the patron of ritual madness and ecstasy. The excesses of his worshippers actually caused the Roman Senate to forbid the worship of this demon.

2. Astrology/Crystal-gazing
This is in Prince Caspian (the book). Caspian's tutor tells him that the times will be changing. He has learned this information from watching 'the great lords of the sky.' I've read these books many times, and completely missed this reference to astrology. The tutor also makes reference to information learned while crystal-gazing.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11. "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination [includes crystal gazing], or an observer of times [astrology], or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer."

3. False Biblical History
At one point in the series, the history of the witches is discussed. Aslan tells the children that the witches are descended form 'Adam's first wife,' the one he apparently had before he married Eve! I think it's the The Magician's Nephew, but my memory isn't quite sure. I wonder how many Biblically-illiterate readers will think that Adam, if he existed, really did have a wife before Eve? What was it that that last chapter of Revelation said about adding to the Word of God?

4. Witchcraft/Magic
These books are filled with references to witchcraft and magic. In The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Lucy is reading a book of spells -- charms (again, Deut. 18:11). She casts one of them to restore the people of an island from invisibility. Aslan himself is revealed when the spell is lifted, but not a word is heard against her act of charming. The magician of the island who has enchanted them (look, there's another reference to Deuteronomy) is a servant of Aslan's.
When Christians try to allegorize Narnia, they look at the slaying of Aslan at the Stone Table as a type of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Yet in Narnia, this event is mixed with magic. References are made to the 'deep magic.' This magic apparently controls even Aslan, as we find out from the above-mentioned invisibility episode in VDT, when he was subject to the limitations of the magician's spell.
The White Witch of The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe, the Green Witch of The Silver Chair, the Hag and Werewolf of Prince Caspian (who suggest the calling up of the White Witch from the dead -- necromancy). I recognize that these are the 'bad guys,' but why is it necessary for us, as Christians, to be reading about witches? They exist, but why must we fill our minds with them? This is the reason I have decided to stop reading/watching all fantasy fiction that includes witches or magic (which is most of it). The Israelites were instructed not to 'suffer a witch to live' in Israel. Why should we suffer them to live in our imaginations? Or the imaginations of our children? I was never tempted to imitate the magical part of my readings as a child, but I imitated a lot of other stories. How am I to know that my children, if allowed to read the same books, will not choose to imitate the magic?

5. Dangerous False Doctrine
Someone else has mentioned the scene about Tash, Aslan and the Calormene in The Last Battle. This is a fictional book, but the false teaching here is so subtly mixed with what appears to be truth, that it is a dangerous idea to have enter one's mind. Isn't a half-truth more dangerous than a lie?
Galatians 1:8. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."


I hope this post isn't too long. I'm not trying to put down anyone who enjoys the movies/books (I probably still would if I watched/read them again). It's just that, no matter how much we may like them, they include elements that we should separate ourselves from -- even as fiction. They are not allegorical. Even if they were meant to be, the amount of false teaching would make them even more dangerous -- think The DaVinci Code.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17. "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you."

This is just a flat out awesome post. I too have been captured by these stories and kept struggling with my spirit over 2 Timothy chapter 4. I was confused why so many men advocated many Christians to go and see these movies as they will show Hollywood that we want more of these types of movies. First we got The Passion then we got The DaVinci Code. First we got The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe then we get The Golden Compass. It is nothing but a trap that the Adversary had cleverly devised to snare those on the bubble of belief and unbelief. To confuse and lure asleep the believer and further chain the unbeliever into deeper depravity.

[Jerry]

If we let the level of special effects (eye candy and/or ear candy) be the criteria that we gauge our entertainment by (rather than truth), then we will find ourselves in a lot of trouble - lowering Biblical standards more and more just to please our flesh.

[John81]

The worst part is, with regards to the movies based on Lewis' books, is that so many professing Christians either call them Christian movies or Christian friendly movies. They are promoted as such from pulpits and by various "Christian leaders".

I wouldn't have such a problem with people just saying, "hey, I like this movie because of the action, or I like the story, or there was no sex in the movie" or something along these lines.

But to outright endorse them as being explicitely or implicitely Christian is putting forth a dangerous lie.