Windsor Hills Youth Conference - Giving away an AR-15

[Guest Guest]

Last I checked, you were not God and could not see their hearts. There may be some going there for the wrong reasons - but I am certain there are many going there to be strengthened spiritually - such as the teens from my church. When they get back, they share with the whole church various things the Lord taught them through that conference, what He changed or strengthened in them. So don't paint everyone with your "carnal, worldly" brush - it won't wash.

:praise: Jerry! I noticed that no one brought up the name...Timothy McVeigh? I can remember the Oklahoma City bombings...can anyone else? Is that now in the distant past for some of you? Please, put yourselves in their shoes. As jerry said, "Last I checked, you were not God and could not see their hearts". Thank the Lord He is in control, and not "carnal" man.

candlelight

[OLD fashioned preacher]

In re-reading the posts, please note several issues and their responses. MOST (not all) were pro-gun. Most (not all) acknowledged the term "independent" in IFB churches - those (most, not all) that stated that THEIR church would not did not state that WHBC shuld not be allowed to. I have personally insured that every child in our church who didn't know how to use a weapon (pistol, rifle, shotgun, and shotgun from the hip (easier for a small framed female)) learned - provided they had their parents permission. If the parent won't (for whatever reason) teach them, I will - but if that parent will not give permission (for whatever reason) then it is still wrong to overstep the parents authority!! Many (not all) of the posts that would not give away the firearm stated so - not due to it being a weapon, but would not give away a mountain bike, 4 wheeler, or computer.
Candlelight, this is not an attack on you or your stated opinion. Rather, please don't misrepresent the majority of replies as being anti-gun hysteria.

[HappyChristian]

In re-reading the posts' date=' please note several issues and their responses. MOST (not all) were pro-gun. Most (not all) acknowledged the term "independent" in IFB churches - those most, not all) that stated that THEIR church would not did not state that WHBC shuld not be allowed to. I have personally insured that every child in our church who didn't know how to use a weapon (pistol, rifle, shotgun, and shotgun from the hip (easier for a small framed female)) learned - provided they had their parents permission. If the parent won't (for whatever reason) teach them, I will - but if that parent will not give permission (for whatever reason) then it is still wrong to overstep the parents authority!! Many (not all) of the posts that would not give away the firearm stated so - not due to it being a weapon, but would not give away a mountain bike, 4 wheeler, or computer.[/quote']
:goodpost:

[OLD fashioned preacher]

I type too slow to get edits done before replies are posted, I use the Biblical system - seek and ye shall find :smile

[HappyChristian]

I type too slow to get edits done before replies are posted' date=' I use the Biblical system - seek and ye shall find :smile[/quote']
:Green Even though I replied before you edited, :goodpost:

[dwayner79]

so a quick skim and the majority of people think this is the parent's role, and the church should stay out of it.

I agree its the parent's role, and I agree that its their responsibility to teach good markmanship.. uh I mean responsible gunownership. :hide

That said, the church should not be stopped from giving away a gun. I would assume the church knows its kids, and knows the parents. How many of your youth group do you know the parents well enough to know if they would be for gun ownership or not. I imagine in OK, they know for sure, and the its 95% or more. So assuming the church knows the parents would be fine with it, and even perhaps getting their approval, why shouldn't the church support the parents. Why shouldn't they have a prize that promotes a value that the parents promote. If those assumptions are correct, then the church is acting to backup the parents by promoting what the parents promote. Last I checked, that was exactly what the church is supposed to be doing when it comes to youth. Being a community that teaches and promotes the same Godly attitudes that the parents do.

[John81]

I humbly disagree. Our founding fathers are currently "rolling around in their graves" as some IFB's post. :puzzled: It isn't a secret what people say about Baptists and their guns. A gun...for self-defense, is EXTREMELY important! This thread is a CRYING shame. :sad

candlelight

Molly, I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with here. I'm pro-gun, I've posted my belief that children and teens should learn to shoot guns, having and knowing how to use guns is important for survival and self-defense, etc.

[HappyChristian]

so a quick skim and the majority of people think this is the parent's role, and the church should stay out of it.

I agree its the parent's role, and I agree that its their responsibility to teach good markmanship.. uh I mean responsible gunownership. :hide

That said, the church should not be stopped from giving away a gun. I would assume the church knows its kids, and knows the parents. How many of your youth group do you know the parents well enough to know if they would be for gun ownership or not. I imagine in OK, they know for sure, and the its 95% or more. So assuming the church knows the parents would be fine with it, and even perhaps getting their approval, why shouldn't the church support the parents. Why shouldn't they have a prize that promotes a value that the parents promote. If those assumptions are correct, then the church is acting to backup the parents by promoting what the parents promote. Last I checked, that was exactly what the church is supposed to be doing when it comes to youth. Being a community that teaches and promotes the same Godly attitudes that the parents do.

If it were just that youth group, then fine. But a youth conference is for youth groups from all over. And the prize was on the same line as past adult conferences where cars and trips were given away. I still think it promotes materialism...

[John81]

:lol dwayner, thank the Lord you are here. At first, I thought I was the "lone" wolf!

candlelight

Have you misread or not read my posts in this thread? They are all pro-gun and I have said from the beginning that each church/youth conference has the right to decide for themselves about such matters. If parents don't agree with guns there then they shouldn't send their children. However, most parents I know would welcome such a thing at a youth conference.

[Guest Guest]

so a quick skim and the majority of people think this is the parent's role, and the church should stay out of it.

I agree its the parent's role, and I agree that its their responsibility to teach good markmanship.. uh I mean responsible gunownership. :hide

That said, the church should not be stopped from giving away a gun. I would assume the church knows its kids, and knows the parents. How many of your youth group do you know the parents well enough to know if they would be for gun ownership or not. I imagine in OK, they know for sure, and the its 95% or more. So assuming the church knows the parents would be fine with it, and even perhaps getting their approval, why shouldn't the church support the parents. Why shouldn't they have a prize that promotes a value that the parents promote. If those assumptions are correct, then the church is acting to backup the parents by promoting what the parents promote. Last I checked, that was exactly what the church is supposed to be doing when it comes to youth. Being a community that teaches and promotes the same Godly attitudes that the parents do.

candlelight

[dwayner79]

Fair enough... I have no real problem with giveaways, even big dollar ones. Materialism is not a result of having things. Good gifts come from God. I agree it can get out of hand, but materialistic people will be materialistic, even if the giveaway is a 5 cent bracelet. Anyway, I get your opposition, just don't agree with it.


Edit: that was directed at Happy... man this thread is active.

[John81]

If it were just that youth group, then fine. But a youth conference is for youth groups from all over. And the prize was on the same line as past adult conferences where cars and trips were given away. I still think it promotes materialism...

I would have to know more about it to discern about the materialism charge, but from what I know at this moment I don't see it as a materialism issue.

In the end it's up to the parents whether or not to send their children to any particular youth conference. If the parents are against the gun issue they can choose not to send their children. Those who are for it or don't mind can go ahead and send their children. For some children this may be their only opportunity to learn gun safety.

[HappyChristian]

I would have to know more about it to discern about the materialism charge, but from what I know at this moment I don't see it as a materialism issue.

In the end it's up to the parents whether or not to send their children to any particular youth conference. If the parents are against the gun issue they can choose not to send their children. Those who are for it or don't mind can go ahead and send their children. For some children this may be their only opportunity to learn gun safety.

I agree it's up to the parents to send or not send. And we wouldn't. Would they really learn gun safety? Who knows. I've just expressed my opinions, as we all have. I fully believe that giving away a gift of this magnitude takes the mind off of why one would go to a conference, and puts it on the material item that one could get rather than the spiritual blessings. That's why I think it's materialistic.

[Guest Guest]

Molly, I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with here. I'm pro-gun, I've posted my belief that children and teens should learn to shoot guns, having and knowing how to use guns is important for survival and self-defense, etc.

John...I just believe from where I sit, that the "Local IFB Church" is NOW responsible for much in the training of our youth. In the Early Church it was that way...and, I firmly believe we are entering those days again. It is my IFB church that takes care of the majority of the youth, anyway. Does the government help IFB, churches? Well, the answer is an obvious, NO. I believe that you are completely FOR something or completely against it. Period. There aren't 2 sides. SO, I guess I am 100%...because, my views are NOT going to change (coming from the other thread).

BTW, this is off topic...but, there is a HUGE difference in being a "Fundamentalist" and a "Bible Believer." Therefore, another reason, I wasn't surprised I scored an 86% on the other thread, rather than a 100%. I am 100% that the KJVO is the complete and ONLY Word of God...and, 100% pro-gun. Those are 2 areas that I won't budge on. And, if it falls on the shoulders of the local IFB church...then, it needs, too. :thumb

candlelight

[John81]

John...I just believe from where I sit, that the "Local IFB Church" is NOW responsible for much in the training of our youth. In the Early Church it was that way...and, I firmly believe we are entering those days again. It is my IFB church that takes care of the majority of the youth, anyway. Does the government help IFB, churches? Well, the answer is an obvious, NO. I believe that you are completely FOR something or completely against it. Period. There aren't 2 sides. SO, I guess I am 100%...because, my views are NOT going to change (coming from the other thread).

BTW, this is off topic...but, there is a HUGE difference in being a "Fundamentalist" and a "Bible Believer." Therefore, another reason, I wasn't surprised I scored an 86% on the other thread, rather than a 100%. I am 100% that the KJVO is the complete and ONLY Word of God...and, 100% pro-gun. Those are 2 areas that I won't budge on. And, if it falls on the shoulders of the local IFB church...then, it needs, too. :thumb

candlelight

Again, I'm really not sure how our views differ on the gun matter. The local church is, and should be, free to take on whatever responsibilities they see fit. If the local church wants to set up a meet on the gun range every Thursday, that's fine by me.

As to the other topic, I'm not real big on labels so I just call myself a Christian and if anyone wants to know more beyond that I'm happy to explain. I believe the KJB is God's true, pure Word.