Free Will an Illusion?

[John81]

Free will could all be an illusion, scientists suggest after study that shows choice could just be the brain tricking itself

Research adds to evidence suggesting 'even our most seemingly ironclad beliefs about our own agency and conscious experience can be dead wrong'

 

The idea that human beings trick themselves into believing in free will was laid out in a paper by psychologists Dan Wegner and Thalia Wheatley nearly 20 years ago. They proposed the feeling of wanting to do something was real, but there may be no connection between the feeling and actually doing it.

The new study builds on that work and says that the brain rewrites history when it makes its choices, changing our memories so that we believe we wanted to do something before it happened.

 

“Whatever the case may be,” they write, “our studies add to a growing body of work suggesting that even our most seemingly ironclad beliefs about our own agency and conscious experience can be dead wrong.”

The work is published in the journal Psychological Science.

 

Entire article: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/free-will-could-all-be-an-illusion-scientists-suggest-after-study-that-shows-choice-could-just-be-a7008181.html

[wretched]

Well I just tested this theory and my findings are "ironclad" proof that they are dead wrong.

I wanted a twinkie, wrote it down on a post it note, ate it and then confirmed by looking at the post it note. Yes I did choose this twinkie just like my memory tells me I did.

case dismissed

[John81]

Prior to seeing this article I was unaware there was such a scientific interest in the subject. The interest stretches from scientific philosophy to medical brain function. I actually came across several articles with various scientists testing the case of whether free will is fact or fiction.

What I discovered from those articles is what is often discovered in scientific inquiries into new frontiers: the scientists are all over the map on the subject! Some believe they see certain proof for free will or against free will. Others fall somewhere in between with a view that some of our actions we have no free will over while others we do.

As one scientist pointed out, for the average person at this moment it wouldn't make a difference if we (scientists) suddenly proved beyond a doubt humans do or don't have free will. People would still be living as they are now regardless.

Naturally, in terms of broader implications, a proof positive for or against free will could have far reaching effects in the future...especially if it was found that free will doesn't exist.

While these scientific endeavors are somewhat interesting, they are not near as interesting as what the Bible has to say.

Now I'll have to contemplate twinkies and whether that big meal I had last night was consumed of my own free will or if I had no choice in the matter. Hmmmm...maybe I was just hungry...or was I???

[No Nicolaitans]

Hmmm...

I thought that I "liked" what Wretched wrote, so I hit the Like button...and sure enough...it shows that I liked it.

So my brain rewrote history to make me think I liked something that I really didn't like? What a bummer. Sorry Wretched, but I honestly thought I liked what you wrote.

Or...did my brain make me like it though I shouldn't have liked it, so my brain rewrote history to make me think I liked it so that I would like something that I shouldn't like; thereby, causing me to perform an action in "Liking" Wretched's post when I actually didn't like it? 

 

[swathdiver]

This is how atheists justify their position.  That we're all programmed animals.  In the Soviet Union they held indoctrination classes for christians to teach them that they did not have free will and were little different than monkeys.  A pupil in one of those classes picked up a chair and smacked the instructor with it and then sat down.  The pupil said he had no free will, the instructor had him shot.

Curiously, several years ago I had a short debate with an atheist woman who said that christians were the ones without free will and that she was of the free thinking, free willing, atheistic mindset.  

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If man has no free will, then God is unjust.

The free will argument reminds me of the Chronicles of Narnia.  Aslan was the righteous.  Tash was the wicked.  When Tash got killed, Aslan rewarded him with entrance into the Kingdom.  He said Tash had accomplished what he was created to do.

Sounds like universalism.  However, it demonstrates that there must be free will between God and man.  Otherwise, man who is wicked should be accepted of the Father for accomplishing what God wanted him to do.

If man has no free will over his actions, then it would be wrong for God to punish man for his actions.  Yet, Matthew 25:46 states the wicked shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Standing Firm In Christ

[John81]

2 hours ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

If man has no free will, then God is unjust.

The free will argument reminds me of the Chronicles of Narnia.  Aslan was the righteous.  Tash was the wicked.  When Tash got killed, Aslan rewarded him with entrance into the Kingdom.  He said Tash had accomplished what he was created to do.

Sounds like universalism.  However, it demonstrates that there must be free will between God and man.  Otherwise, man who is wicked should be accepted of the Father for accomplishing what God wanted him to do.

If man has no free will over his actions, then it would be wrong for God to punish man for his actions.  Yet, Matthew 25:46 states the wicked shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Unless...God specifically made some folks for the express purpose of being an example of evil in life and an example of the reward evil-doers receive in the next life. (Just adding one of the main counter-points that often comes up)

[Invicta]

Whos is paying for this "research"?

[2bLikeJesus]

15 minutes ago, Invicta said:

Whos is paying for this "research"?

Probably the LGBT community so they can combat the claim that they weren't born that way but that they chose their lifestyle of their own free will.  With no free will, then they are not responsible for being gay because that is just how they are born.

[No Nicolaitans]

4 hours ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

If man has no free will, then God is unjust.

The free will argument reminds me of the Chronicles of Narnia.  Aslan was the righteous.  Tash was the wicked.  When Tash got killed, Aslan rewarded him with entrance into the Kingdom.  He said Tash had accomplished what he was created to do.

Sounds like universalism. 

What? Surely C.S. Lewis was theologically sound. 

[John81]

3 hours ago, Invicta said:

Whos is paying for this "research"?

Typically with this type of research it's funded by government grants (our taxes). Most non-governmental sources of possible funding wouldn't waste their money this sort of research unless they happened to have an agenda they thought might be helped by the results.

[John81]

2 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

What? Surely C.S. Lewis was theologically sound. 

I've never really understood the fascination with Lewis. Overall, aspects of his theology don't agree with other aspects of his own theology. Even in areas where he got it right, I didn't see he put it forth in any overly profound way which actually elevated it above what others have said on the same matter.

Amazing how many quote him and recommend his books. I'm not sure just how he became so popular, especially among more solid Christians, but it seems his popularity is now propelled as much by simply being popular as it is for what he's actually written.

Considering many quote Rick Warren, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II, it's little wonder they like to quote Lewis too.

[swathdiver]

Like C.S. Lewis, the "christians" who love him are not really Christians at all.  Most were never scripturally born-again the bible's way.  Ignorance also plays a part, people hear that Lewis was a Christian and take such for granted not deeming it important to see what kind of christian he was.  A little digging and one will discover that he was not a Christian at all.  Today such men as Rob Bell and William Young continue the deception.