The Widow's Mites

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Mark 12:40a "Which devour widows houses,..."

 

devour - Greek 'katesthio'

Outline of Biblical Usage:
to consume by eating, to eat up, devour
of birds
of a dragon
of a man eating up the little book
metaph.
to devour i.e. squander, waste: substance
to devour i.e. forcibly appropriate: widows' property
to strip one of his goods
to ruin (by the infliction of injuries)
by fire, to devour i.e. to utterly consume, destroy
of the consumption of the strength of body and mind by strong emotions

 

the whole purpose of Jesus sitting against the wall was to demonstrate to His followers how the widow's living was being "forcibly appropriated."  She was forced to give all her living by the scribes of the Law, just as we are forced to pay taxes by the scribes of our laws.

 

Jesus was not commending the widow on her giving at all.  He was pointing out to His followers that she gave all her living because she was being forced to do so.

The forced taxation did little to hurt the rich, yet it oppressed the poor greatly, taking away from that which they needed to survive.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ

[mkrishna]

There are a lot of rules oftentimes that Baptist churches add outside of the Bible. If I had a family, with my income, which is above average, I don't know how I would obey some of the added Independent Baptist rules like being obligated to send all the children to a Christian school, tithing the gross income all to the church, and not allowing the wife to work outside the home in any circumstances.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

4 hours ago, mkrishna said:

There are a lot of rules oftentimes that Baptist churches add outside of the Bible. If I had a family, with my income, which is above average, I don't know how I would obey some of the added Independent Baptist rules like being obligated to send all the children to a Christian school, tithing the gross income all to the church, and not allowing the wife to work outside the home in any circumstances.

Hmmmm, I wonder what you might consider an "above average" income.  As for myself, I, my wife, and my two children have lived for many years on less than $30,000 per year.  Yet my wife does not work outside the home; my children are homeschooled (was - for the oldest, since he is now in Bible college training for the ministry); and we (my wife and I) have given (because we purposed in our hearts to do so) 20% of all our increase unto the work of the Lord in honor unto our Lord.  In addition, I believe that we as a family have lived quite joyfully and comfortably in so doing. 

"But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully." (2 Corinthians 9:6 - a New Testament promise)

"And God is able to make all grace abound toward you: that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God." (2 Corinthians 9:8 & 11, with the parenthetical of verses 9-10 removed - another New Testament promise)

"Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for you food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness." (2 Corinthians 9:10 - a New Testament prayer)

"Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift." (2 Corinthians 9:15 - a New Testament motivation for bountiful giving)

[Standing Firm In Christ]

5 hours ago, mkrishna said:

There are a lot of rules oftentimes that Baptist churches add outside of the Bible. If I had a family, with my income, which is above average, I don't know how I would obey some of the added Independent Baptist rules like being obligated to send all the children to a Christian school, tithing the gross income all to the church, and not allowing the wife to work outside the home in any circumstances.

Nothing intrinsically wrong with a set list of rules in the IFB.  Established rules in any organization is a must if that organization is to run effectively.  One has the choice to become a member or not.

 

However, when any denomination, IFB or otherwise, invents rules such as the monetary tithe and claims that the Bible teaches said rule, (using Leviticus 27:30; Malachi 3:8-10; Matthew 23:23, or any other verse in the Bible as their "proof-text") that denomination is clearly handling the Word of God deceitfully..

 

[swathdiver]

10 hours ago, mkrishna said:

There are a lot of rules oftentimes that Baptist churches add outside of the Bible. If I had a family, with my income, which is above average, I don't know how I would obey some of the added Independent Baptist rules like being obligated to send all the children to a Christian school, tithing the gross income all to the church, and not allowing the wife to work outside the home in any circumstances.

Rules or biblical principles?  Off the top of my head I can think of verses which support the first two but what about the third?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

19 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

Rules or biblical principles?  Off the top of my head I can think of verses which support the first two but what about the third?

There are no verses to support the tithing of one's gross income to the Church.  

 

[swathdiver]

None for you 

27 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

There are no verses to support the tithing of one's gross income to the Church.  

 

None for you, we know.  For me and my house we happily give of our tithes and offerings; our substance, the firstfruits of all our increase.  

Back to MrKrishna, Proverbs 3:9 is a bible reference to tithing one's gross income.  You earned it all even though you do not get to see what was taken by the government.  It's the Lord's money anyways, not yours.  He let you have it.  Funny thing though, Hillary and Obama and Nancy and Harry say the same thing all the time too!  

[Standing Firm In Christ]

1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

None for you 

None for you, we know.  For me and my house we happily give of our tithes and offerings; our substance, the firstfruits of all our increase.  

Back to MrKrishna, Proverbs 3:9 is a bible reference to tithing one's gross income.  You earned it all even though you do not get to see what was taken by the government.  It's the Lord's money anyways, not yours.  He let you have it.  Funny thing though, Hillary and Obama and Nancy and Harry say the same thing all the time too!  

Proverbs 3:9 is NOT about tithing monetary income, gross or net.

 

Solomon was living in the dispensation of the Law.  The Law stated that God's holy tithe was agricultural, NOT monetary.  Solomon was NOT saying to tithe money.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The Hebrew word 'kabad' is translated as the word 'honour' in Proverbs 3:9.  'kabad' is used 116 times in the Hebrew text, and not once is the word translated as 'tithe'.  'kabad' is not even found in any of the tithe passages.

 

[swathdiver]

SFIC, the tithe applies today as it did in the Garden of Eden.  I live it, my church teaches it and our prayers have not been hindered.  We have not been thrown out of church and we do not subsist on ramen noodles.  We cheerfully give and the Lord provides, despite the tremendous hardships we've endured as of late.

I consider you a brother in Christ and know you love the Lord and also know that this is your pet project in life.  I'm not going to play the greek game or debate the subject.  

Abraham gave through Melchisedec to Christ, Israel gave through the Levites to Christ, the church members give through their local churches to Christ.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

4 hours ago, swathdiver said:

SFIC, the tithe applies today as it did in the Garden of Eden.  I live it, my church teaches it and our prayers have not been hindered.  We have not been thrown out of church and we do not subsist on ramen noodles.  We cheerfully give and the Lord provides, despite the tremendous hardships we've endured as of late.

I consider you a brother in Christ and know you love the Lord and also know that this is your pet project in life.  I'm not going to play the greek game or debate the subject.  

Abraham gave through Melchisedec to Christ, Israel gave through the Levites to Christ, the church members give through their local churches to Christ.

In the Bible, the tithe is not even mentioned in the account of the Garden of Eden.  To teach that it was in the Garden of Eden is to add to the Word of God.

What Abram tithed to Melchizedek was spoils of war.  The Bible nowhere says he gave his own household monetary income to Melchizedek.  To teach that Abram either gave his household monetary income to Melchizedek, or that he tithed his household monetary income to Melchizedek, is to add to the Word of God.

Israel tithed agricultural produce and livestock to the Levites,... not their household monetary income.  To teach that they tithed their monetary income to the Levites, is to add to the Word of God.

I'll continue to preach what the Bible says concerning God's holy tithe.  If your Church chooses to add to the Biblical text, and to teach for doctrine the commandment of men, that's their error.  

Edited December 10, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Genevanpreacher]

On 12/9/2015 at 3:09 AM, swathdiver said:

Rules or biblical principles?  Off the top of my head I can think of verses which support the first two but what about the third?

Titus 2 -

3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[Alan]

Brethren,

I will also add a very short word of testimony. I give my of my treasures to the church, willingly, purposely, and cheerfully, because I love the Lord and His work. To me, the widow is an example for me to do more than I do. And, more than likely, I do not measure up to the commendation that Lord Jesus gave to the poor widow.

It is a blessing to be able to give to the Lord through His church.

Alan

[Standing Firm In Christ]

There was no commendation in Mark 12:38-44.

[Alan]

1 hour ago, Alan said:

Brethren,

I will also add a very short word of testimony. I give my of my treasures to the church, willingly, purposely, and cheerfully, because I love the Lord and His work. To me, the widow is an example for me to do more than I do. And, more than likely, I do not measure up to the commendation that Lord Jesus gave to the poor widow.

It is a blessing to be able to give to the Lord through His church.

Alan

Yes, the Lord Jesus purposely commended the widow.

Tthe Lord Jesus commended the widow and the giving of her mites. The widow purposely, cheerfully, and lovingly gave of her funds, yea, all of her funds, to the Lord God in heaven through the Temple as the Old Testament directed. And the saints who love the Lord Jesus give willingly, cheerfully, and purposely through the New Testament, Independent, Bible believing Baptist church for the furtherance of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The idea that the widow did not give wilingly, but through, what you say, through 'coerceon,' or 'robbery' is a  perversion of the very words of the Lord Jesus.

SFIC, why don't you just stick to your own blog (and your own book on tithing), and promote your own interpretation of the words of the Lord Jesus, and the other scriptures on your own blog, to those who are likeminded instead of forcing your teachings on us. Your teaching is repugnant.

Alan