Godliness VS Worldliness

[John81]

We teach about the unmerited favor of God's grace but also teach about sin and our call to live holy lives.

Some years ago we had an associate pastor that was seen on a gambling boat. Word got back to our pastor who immediately called the associate pastor into his office for a talk. The associate pastor claimed to have gone there to share the Gospel. He presented his case well, there was no evidence he did otherwise, no reports he had been seen drinking or gambling. Our pastor told him very clearly that it was inappropriate for him to be on the gambling boat because of the bad testimony it gives and the other problems that could come about from such. Our pastor had a long talk with him about the type of places a pastor shouldn't be, not even if he's trying to share the Gospel since there are better places and ways to do that. The associate pastor was told if he was ever to go to the gambling boat again, or any other place he shouldn't, his reason for being there wouldn't matter because he would automatically be fired. The associate pastor agreed.

A couple of months later he was seen by someone on vacation from this little town, in a gambling place about 250 miles from here. Our pastor fired him but he also offered to help him if he wanted help with a problem. The (former) associate pastor said since he got caught last time he had started driving that 250 miles every Friday so he could drink and gamble and then drive back late Saturday night to be here in time for church. He admitted it was sin, said he was addicted and had tried to stop, but he didn't want our pastors help. He left town the following week and the last we heard he had left the ministry to work a menial job and was still addicted to gambling (he also drank, but only while gambling...still sin, but the drinking itself wasn't an addiction, a sinful choice to partake while gambling).

[Saintnow]

Sin is never okay. Believers do pay a price for sin, but it is not their salvation.It is sometimes by poor physical health, maybe even death, but it is always loss of fellowship with God, which will bring a loss of rewards at the "Judgment Seat of Christ" which every Christian will face for our works to be judged. As believers we should be "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts", but it is by Gods grace in which we do that, not of our own power. We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit which is where our power to overcome sin comes from. Unless we abide in Him as He tells us in John 15:1-8, we are able to do nothing.

The more we understand grace, the more we are able to be obedient to Him, at least by my own experience. Erwin Lutzer said in a recent sermon, to understand grace we can picture a train track with us walking down the middle. If we step over one of the rails, we have moved into licentiousness. If we step over the other rail, we have moved into legalism. Either way is outside of Gods will. It's only when we walk the center of the track that we know we are "walking by the Spirit", and therefore are "abiding" in Him as He says in John 15.

This commentary about slipping into legalism is undefined, sketchy.  The Bible is very clear that we are to be holy in everything we say, think, and do, and if in any of the briefest moments of the time God lends us in this world we are not being holy we are sinning and need to repent.  We have to make the effort to be cooperative with God, yielded to obey Him, yielded to be used by Him however He desires.  When my own speaking brings conviction on my own soul because I know it's Biblical and I don't measure up to what God wants me to be, when the Amen that rises up in me compels me to humble myself...until I am fully crucified with Christ and my sin holds no more sway over my time...until I see Jesus face to face and am like Him forever.....

Usually, when people accuse Christians of legalism, they are in reality accusing God of being legalistic when He demands holiness in His beloved....and if you are sitting there with your eyes glued to Bugs Bunny, your holiness flew away with Daffy Duck before the commercials started.

I think things like declaring things like "spotted owls" as endangered species along with things like teaching our kids about global warming and that the original Native Americans were nature lovers who did no wrong, didn't believe in "owning land", and it's all George Bush's fault, are just steps toward the eventual confiscation of all private property. After the "Liberals" take all our guns, completely control healthcare, that will follow pretty quickly. What was this thread about. (scrolls to top) Oh yeah. The Lord owns it all anyway.

I don't know about Bugs Bunny but having just opened the thread and read all this, I'm feeling a bit like the rabbit at the Mad Hatter's tea party.

sounds like you need to repent of drug abuse, or renounce the pleasures you had from it.

[Saintnow]

I think things like declaring things like "spotted owls" as endangered species along with things like teaching our kids about global warming and that the original Native Americans were nature lovers who did no wrong, didn't believe in "owning land", and it's all George Bush's fault, are just steps toward the eventual confiscation of all private property. After the "Liberals" take all our guns, completely control healthcare, that will follow pretty quickly. What was this thread about. (scrolls to top) Oh yeah. The Lord owns it all anyway.

Sounds like you don't much care what it's about, and that careless attitude is what it's about....the carelessness, even antagonism,  toward godliness encouraged by the heretical teaching of God's grace.....but I guess you don't care, so why am I bothering to tell you? 

How is anything you said here any different than the words of a devil? 

[John81]

While the term isn't always properly used, most recognize when someone talks about legalism they are actually talking about those who put more emphasis upon outward appearance than the condition of a persons heart. We can look good on the outside and demand others do the same, but if sin is in our hearts we are not any more holy than the one sins outwardly.

When it comes to fellow believers our first call is to get ourselves right with God so we will be able to help others do the same in a kind, loving, manner.

Too often there are some who are quick to condemn, attack, name call and denounce rather than to follow the biblical command to love, esteem others better than ourselves, seek to help, disciple, lift up, build up, restore followers of Christ in need of such.

Sin is sin, whether it's the man listening to drinking and cheating country music songs at home, or the man who refuses to walk in love as God commands.

None of us are perfect. None of us will reach perfection in this life. We are each, hopefully, aiming for that calling to godly, holy perfection, but we are all at different stages, different levels of maturity, have different sins we have more trouble with or less trouble, and God is dealing with each of us according to His timing and purpose, not ours or another persons.

We also need to consider the different way in which most more "conservative" Baptists use the term legalism, and the way the secular, weak and some baby Christians use the term. Most "conservative" type Baptists use it as discussed above. It's the others who typically use that term against anyone who calls something they do or like a sin, even if Scripture is clear such is sin. We can't paint everyone with the same brush unless we don't care about being accurate.

Most here (on OB) are fighting the good fight of faith. We are all at different levels of maturity, but we are all heading in the same direction.

[Saintnow]

While the term isn't always properly used, most recognize when someone talks about legalism they are actually talking about those who put more emphasis upon outward appearance than the condition of a persons heart. We can look good on the outside and demand others do the same, but if sin is in our hearts we are not any more holy than the one sins outwardly.

When it comes to fellow believers our first call is to get ourselves right with God so we will be able to help others do the same in a kind, loving, manner.

Too often there are some who are quick to condemn, attack, name call and denounce rather than to follow the biblical command to love, esteem others better than ourselves, seek to help, disciple, lift up, build up, restore followers of Christ in need of such.

Sin is sin, whether it's the man listening to drinking and cheating country music songs at home, or the man who refuses to walk in love as God commands.

None of us are perfect. None of us will reach perfection in this life. We are each, hopefully, aiming for that calling to godly, holy perfection, but we are all at different stages, different levels of maturity, have different sins we have more trouble with or less trouble, and God is dealing with each of us according to His timing and purpose, not ours or another persons.

We also need to consider the different way in which most more "conservative" Baptists use the term legalism, and the way the secular, weak and some baby Christians use the term. Most "conservative" type Baptists use it as discussed above. It's the others who typically use that term against anyone who calls something they do or like a sin, even if Scripture is clear such is sin. We can't paint everyone with the same brush unless we don't care about being accurate.

Most here (on OB) are fighting the good fight of faith. We are all at different levels of maturity, but we are all heading in the same direction.

You are offering excuses for sin. You are teaching the heretical perversion of God's grace.

The Bible is way more interesting than TV.  TV is sin filled, vanity and a waste of time.  TV is like a circus that used to come to town with all the sideshows.

he's teaching the heretical form of God's grace,  a perversion of God's grace making God's grace into something that it is not...an excuse for self-indulgences.

 

 

Why don't you go start your own thread, and take Heartstrings and some of the others who want to chit chat about your stupid goats?

.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2015 by Saintnow

[John81]

You are offering excuses for sin. You are teaching the heretical perversion of God's grace.

he's teaching the heretical form of God's grace,  a perversion of God's grace making God's grace into something that it is not...an excuse for self-indulgences.

 

Now it's clear you are far from in touch with Scripture or living up to the holy life you demand of my brothers/sisters in Christ here.

Brother Heartstrings, as well as others here you have wrongly spoken ill of, are fine brothers in Christ.

Please take this opportunity to tend to the beam in your own eye, and I do mean this in all love and sincere hope you will repent and grow in Christ toward the holiness you have spoken of.

Myself and others are here to help and to pray for you if you so desire.

[Saintnow]

Now it's clear you are far from in touch with Scripture or living up to the holy life you demand of my brothers/sisters in Christ here.

Brother Heartstrings, as well as others here you have wrongly spoken ill of, are fine brothers in Christ.

Please take this opportunity to tend to the beam in your own eye, and I do mean this in all love and sincere hope you will repent and grow in Christ toward the holiness you have spoken of.

Myself and others are here to help and to pray for you if you so desire.

you are teaching the heretical form of grace which is a perversion of God's grace and is from your own lusts, not from God, not from the Bible.    Yosemite Sam supporters can't teach Bible to me, not allowed.  Go talk to Bugs Bunny.

you are teaching the heretical form of grace which is a perversion of God's grace and is from your own lusts, not from God, not from the Bible.  Attacking me won't help you.  Yosemite Sam supporters can't teach Bible to me, not allowed.  Go talk to Bugs Bunny.

I have spoken accurately about people behaving childish, rudely in this thread.  You John, are one of them.  Try to stick to the topic...holiness VS worldliness, the heretical teaching which perverts God's grace as an excuse for compromising with worldly lusts and ungodly things.   I say you are teaching the grace heresy, and you attack me personally.  That's typical from people who practice and teach the grace heresy

Edited July 24, 2015 by Saintnow

[heartstrings]

Saintnow, are you Pentecostal?

[Saintnow]

Saintnow, are you Pentecostal?

why don't you read the OP and offer some adult discussion on the topic?

Edited July 24, 2015 by Saintnow

[Ukulelemike]

Why don't you go start your own thread, and take Heartstrings and some of the others who want to chit chat about your stupid goats?

I suppose you would have an issue with Paul, Priscilla and Aquila taking important time out of the work to waste their time making foolish tents. Tents are pretty worldly.   And Jesus, well, how dare He waste the entire first thirty years of his life in such a worldly wicked job as a carpenter!

There is nothing in the Bible that tells us that the life of a believer must have absolutely nothing else in it. We have not been called out of the world, just not to be a part of the world. That means we should have some sort of ability to talk to them in a way they understand. Jesus, when He spoke to the lost, used stories and examples of worldly things of society. He even said to make unto yourselves friends of mammon. The idea we must reject every aspect of the world we live in is unbiblical and unrealistic, and honestly, I can't think of one story of anyone falling into sin and debauchery...or crossdressing, for that matter, from watching Bugs Bunny. 

As for my goats, actually, I have learned a lot about being a pastor from raising sheep and goats-the Bible speaks a lot about them, but I never fully understood it and was able to apply it until I raised them. So don't disrespect the sheep and the goats, for of such are you, my dear fellow-sheep.