James W knox?

[Alan]

Salyan is entirely correct.

All of the different Gap Theories are totally doctrnally incorrect. The twisting of 2 Peter 3:3-7 to fit the Gap theory is a blot, a shame, and a reproach on fundamentalism. 2 Peter 3:3-7 is a direct reference to the flood of Noah's day and not to anything else.

To say that Genesis 1:1 is a reference to the, Original  creation is very close to heretical. Please forgive me for saying this, but, your interpretation of Genesis 1:14-17 and Job 22 are not correct.

I have known about James Knox for some time and due to the Gap Theory I have not gotten involved with his ministry nor do I apporve of it. He is a good man in almost all other respects, but the Gap theory, and the false interpretation of Genesis 1:1, 2 Peter 3;3-7, Job 22, etc... by these Gap theorists is heretical.

[John81]

Which is also why I've always rejected Scofield and his Bible.

It's amazing even among Fundamentalists how many believe in some form of a gap theory and how many promote those who believe such (even if they themselves don't believe it). Talk about a little leaven!

[AdamL]

Salyan is entirely correct.

All of the different Gap Theories are totally doctrnally incorrect. The twisting of 2 Peter 3:3-7 to fit the Gap theory is a blot, a shame, and a reproach on fundamentalism. 2 Peter 3:3-7 is a direct reference to the flood of Noah's day and not to anything else.

To say that Genesis 1:1 is a reference to the, Original  creation is very close to heretical. Please forgive me for saying this, but, your interpretation of Genesis 1:14-17 and Job 22 are not correct.

I have known about James Knox for some time and due to the Gap Theory I have not gotten involved with his ministry nor do I apporve of it. He is a good man in almost all other respects, but the Gap theory, and the false interpretation of Genesis 1:1, 2 Peter 3;3-7, Job 22, etc... by these Gap theorists is heretical.

As far as Job 22 goes that is what Brother Knox says in his commentary which I was trying to explain his position because I did not believe it was accurately understood what he taught.  Most people believe if you believe the gap then you teach evolution and that is false.

I don't know that I agree with what he teaches or not.  I just wanted what he taught to be accurately represented because I believe he does much good for the Lord.  If you disagree fine, to be honest I don't care if anyone agrees with him or not.

As far as my interpretation of the firmament and Gen 1:14-17 I'm not sure what is wrong with that.  It says a firmament will divide waters from waterswaters (Gen 1:6-7) and that the sun, moon, and stars are in the area between the earth and the firmament (second heaven).  If the firmament was or is a canopy surrounding the earth then the sun, moon, and stars would have to be in the atmosphere of the earth, which they are not.

Ezekiel 1 makes it clear that above the firmament is the abode of God.  There is a crystal sea there, so the firmament would divide water on earth from water in Heaven.

 

[Alan]

John81,

You are correct. Scofield's note on Genesis 1:1 and 2,  (note 2 and 3), and his private, heretical, senseless, interpretation is a blot on his otherwise, for the most part, good references. If you read the notes carefully he brings out the Gap Theory  by his own private interpretation of Jeremiah 4:23-26 and Isaiah 24:1 and 45. It is a sad day in fundamentalism when otherwise good men bring out heretical doctrine.

Alan

Brethren,

I am not going to continue debating the merits of Pastor Knox and the Gap Theory. The Gap Theory has already been hashed out pretty good in previous threads on OnLine Baptist and I do not have the inclination to continue.

I have a very good personal friend (a couple) at Bro. Knox's Church (Bible Baptist Church, Deland, Florida), and, except for his Gap theory teachings, I respect Pastor Knox and his ministry. The only reason I even responded, briefly, to this thread is because of the Gap Theory issue. To me it is a doctrinal issue.

[EKSmith]

John81,

You are correct. Scofield's note on Genesis 1:1 and 2,  (note 2 and 3), and his private, heretical, senseless, interpretation is a blot on his otherwise, for the most part, good references. If you read the notes carefully he brings out the Gap Theory  by his own private interpretation of Jeremiah 4:23-26 and Isaiah 24:1 and 45. It is a sad day in fundamentalism when otherwise good men bring out heretical doctrine.

Alan

Thank you brother for bringing this to my attention ,I'm now seeing this clearly as you have explained , though i have watched a few videos and listen to some audios of brother Knox I haven't had any concern for the gap theory and really don't know anything much about it other then I've never found such in Gods word, and if its not there I don't believe it. It is very sad indeed to see a good pastor bring out heretical doctrine , thank you , praying for brother Knox.

God bless

[wretched]

Title: Gap-Schmap, who cares

Point 1: I have heard of schofield Bibles but haven't heard of Mr. Knox before now but regardless of anyone's opinion, there is something to this theory. I won't deny the possibility when there is enough evidence of something against the traditional flow of belief in several passages of Scripture. Some of which already highlighted in this thread. These passages cannot be fit at all, much less neatly into other explanations.

Point 2: the unedited idea that something we cannot even partially understand doesn't negate at all our sin condition and Work of Christ for us.

Point 3: It is in There for a reason but our full understanding of it apparently doesn't matter at this time, only reproducing as Christians matters for us.

Conclusion: Who knows what we will really learn that is in the Word once in Heaven. Even more exciting is learning what isn't easily understood and constantly argued in the Word and imagine all the things that are not in the Word that we didn't need to know now.

Encore: Don't hurt yourselves replying, I am not a Gap supporter (remember the Title above). I just refuse to rule out some or all of it over theoretical what-ifs and peoples opinions. Whatever it is (and it is something), it is not "that" important (relatively speaking).

Footnote: Kinda like the knock down drag outs you folks have over angels and women and giants.

[Salyan]

If death came before sin, Wretched, then it does negate the work of Christ. That's why the Gap Theory is a problem. Also, while I agree that we don't have full understanding on everything (maybe not much!), there is more to the Christian life than just reproducing. We are also to disciple, and grow up to the 'full stature' of believers, to become those that eat meat and not just milk. Believers that do not grow in such a manner are easily swayed by false and harmful doctrines - so it is important to discuss things like this and come to a level of understanding.

[wretched]

Yeah, but what did you think of the outline??

[Alan]

The firmament is still in place.  I was taught that an "ice canopy" of some kind was the firmament that surrounded the earth and crashed during the flood.  I have no issue with a "canopy" of sorts because the earth was obviously very different before the flood just based off of life spans of humans.  I do have a problem with it being called the firmament though.

Genesis 1:14-17 says the sun moon and stars are in the firmament.  Obviously the sun, moon, and stars are not in the earth's atmosphere or anywhere near it.

Ezekiel 1 describes creatures that go up and are just under the firmament.  They hear a voice from above thefirmament.  Above the firmament is a throne with someone that had the likeness of a man sitting on it and it describes the throne area.  The description goes hand in hand with the description of the Third Heaven in Rev 4.  Which also mentions a crystal sea...

 

Adam, this thread was for the discussion of John Knox and the Gap theory. so, I did not dwell on the aspect Genesis 1:14-17, Ezekiel 1 and Revelation 4:6  "the firmament." Please take notice. I ssain nothing in any previous posts anything about the, "canopy," nor will I discuss the canopy in this post. It is not mentioned and is muddling the waters.

Briefly, I will try to explain why I said what I did.

Paul clealry stated that there are three heavens; each heaven has its, "firmament." 2 Corinthians 12:2, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell: or whether out of the body, I cannot tell, God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

1. The firmament mentioned in  Ezekiel 1 and Revelation 4:6 are one and the same: Heaven, the abode of God. Heaven, the abode of God, is the third heaven.

2. The firmament in Genesis 1:14-17 is not talking about Heaven, the Abode of God. It is describing, what we call, Outer Space, "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night: and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years." This firmament is the second heaven.

3. "And God said, let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that they may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." Genesis 1:20. This firmament is obviously the first heaven, the atmosphere above the earth where the fowls and birds of the air fly.

I hope that above points will clarify the, "firmament," question.

My main contention is that the Gap theory is a non-scriptual belief. I do want you to personally know that is does not affect my friendship with you. I consider you a friend and I do not want to cause any hard feelings between us.

Alan

Edited August 3, 2015 by Alan
addition explanation

[Salyan]

I think the comments re the firmament were in response to my making up a term ('firmament of waters'). Guess I had it in my head that the firmament was a layer around the earth (which it can be, kind of - the atmosphere is a layer around the earth, so to speak) and was using that to describe a layer of water. I stand corrected. I think we're all actually in agreement on the actual definition of firmament.

[Bless]

Very exciting to read