Opinions On Atheists?

[Professor_Physika]

Hi all

As some of you may know, I'm a recent member invited by another member of this online forum. I'm also an atheist.

So far, I have been treated fairly respectably on this board which I greatly appreciate, but there have been some inklings by fellow board members as to the intent of some of my posts.

In an effort to help me further understand Christian doctrine and the opinions of Christians in general, I've started this thread so that the following question can be answered: what do you think about atheists and why?

(Possible suggestions for discussion: what do you think an atheist is, what do you think an atheist believes or doesn't believe, do you have any atheistic friends, etc etc; by the way, fill free to express your honest opinion, I don't offend easy  )

Thanks  

Edited June 20, 2015 by Professor_Physika
Grammatical issues!

[RevBob]

There are only two faiths in the world--true Christianity and satanism. (Matt 12:30)  You belong to the later.  "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44

Any time you think of yourself, any time you look at yourself in the mirror, you should take a hard look and give a serious thought to the kind of filth that you are.  Jesus hates you (Ps. 5:5) and He will send you to Hell, to be tortured there for eternity.  You will wallow in burning sulfurous pit, you'll be burning, weeping and gnashing your teeth(Luke 13:28, Matt. 8:12) while Satan and his devils will tearing your flesh apart. 

But all that doesn't have to be that way because Jesus, in His infinite mercy, gave you a way out!  Repent, accept Him as your Savior, and you might be Saved, and become one of those that Jesus loves and accepts into His kingdom of joy, peace, and happiness. Praise!

[Miss Daisy]

Professer physika, just so you know, RevBob doesn't have much support for some of his beliefs. All Christians were once unbelievers/ atheists, but not satanists. The answers you are seeking will never be fully answered by anyone on this board. Only God can if you seek Him in His word, the Bible. It says in the Bible that even as Christians we also won't know everything either , because His ways are not our ways or even meant for us to understand in this lifetime.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Miss Daisy

[Professor_Physika]

Hi RevBob!

Wow! You've certainly given me a lot to consider, although I've heard some of it before.

Thanks for the input

Hi Miss Daisy!

I'm asking mostly for opinions and how those opinions are substantiated. I'm willing to consider that some of the answers are in the Bible, but I hope that doesn't preclude you and others from resounding to my questions.

Thanks  

[Invicta]

Hi all

As some of you may know, I'm a recent member invited by another member of this online forum. I'm also an atheist.

So far, I have been treated fairly respectably on this board which I greatly appreciate, but there have been some inklings by fellow board members as to the intent of some of my posts.

In an effort to help me further understand Christian doctrine and the opinions of Christians in general, I've started this thread so that the following question can be answered: what do you think about atheists and why?

(Possible suggestions for discussion: what do you think an atheist is, what do you think an atheist believes or doesn't believe, do you have any atheistic friends, etc etc; by the way, fill free to express your honest opinion, I don't offend easy  )

Thanks  

There are passive atheists who just don't want to be bothered.  There are also active Atheists who actively believe in no god and there are what has been called evangelical atheists like Dawkins who actively promote atheism.  This is a religion, not a non religion.  Rather than an active belief in God, the have an active belief if no god.

[LindaR]

Professor_Physika:

Why do atheists try so hard to prove the non-existence of God if they believe God doesn't exist?  Kind of a fruitless endeavor, isn't it?

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

These verses in Romans 1:18-23 prove that there is no such a person as a true atheist.  God calls those who deny the existence of God, fools.

Psalms 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Psalms 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
 

 

Edited June 20, 2015 by LindaR

[Professor_Physika]

Hi LindaR!

"Why do atheists try so hard to prove the non-existence of God if they believe God doesn't exist?  Kind of a fruitless endeavor, isn't it?"

I'm going to assume this is a direct question for me so I'll take the liberty of answering it. Most atheists I know don't actively try to prove the nonexistence of God. Rather, they generally object to the evidence presented or point to inconsistencies in belief. At least, this is generally what I'm occupied with doing. For example, my position as an atheist is this: I lack a belief in any gods because of the lack of evidence for said gods. I don't actively believe there are no gods because I'd have to have a definition of every single god and then I'd have to disprove said gods which is practically impossible.

"These verses in Romans 1:18-23 prove that there is no such a person as a true atheist.  God calls those who deny the existence of God, fools."

While, of course, I'd deny that these Bible verses in any way demonstrate there is no such thing as a true atheist, I can at least understand where you'd reach the conclusion. I likewise don't think I'm too big of a fool (hopefully), but I'm always open to the proposition that I'm wrong  

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

Now it's not my place to pick apart Bible verses, but I do find it interesting that you quoted the end of this verse (most people only quote "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.). It's interesting because I believe it's demonstrably wrong from a literal perspective: I and others like me do good all of the time. In fact, I donated to Goodwill last month, which I think we can agree is a good work (not to brag of course).
So I guess my question would be how do you reconcile this verse with demonstrable reality?
Thanks  

[John81]

Considering so many atheists take offense at even the thought of God, and many go to lengths to try and tell everyone there is no God, why not put forth evidence which proves atheism correct?

[LindaR]

https://www.thebereancall.org/content/july-2013-in-defense

In Defense of the Faith

Hunt, Dave

Jul 1 2013

Biblical Answers to Challenging Questions

Must I Believe God Exists Before I Seek Him?

Question: In my daily Bible reading, I came across a verse that really puzzles me: “Without faith it is impossible to please him [God]; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him” (Hebrews:11:6). Rather than God revealing Him-self to a seeking heart, it sounds as though one must already believe in God before seeking Him. How can that be the case?

Response:  Would someone seek God if he didn’t already believe He existed? It would be a waste of time. In fact, everyone, including you, knows that God exists.

The true story is told of a London street preacher who announced to his audience that every atheist was a fool because the Bible said so. A well-known atheist in the crowd shouted back at him that it was a slanderous insult, which he took personally, and that he would sue the preacher for damages. The preacher responded, “It’s not slander to tell the truth.”

The atheist countered, “And it’s not truth unless you can prove it! You’ll have to prove in court that I’m a fool, or I’ll take every pound you’ve got!”

“I don’t have to go to court to prove it,” said the preacher calmly. “You say you’re an atheist?”

“Yes, and not just a casual one. I’ve spent my life proving God doesn’t exist. It’s a pernicious myth!”

“Spent your life proving God doesn’t exist, have you?” replied the preacher. “Tell me this: if a man who spends his life fighting against something that doesn’t exist isn’t a fool, who is?”

Likewise, one would have to be a fool to spend any time at all seeking to know a God without being convinced that He exists. God expects every person, as the first step in knowing Him, to admit the obvious fact that He exists. Furthermore, God expects each person coming to Him to have a proper concept of who He is. He won’t honor prayers to an idol or to some “force” or “higher power.” Each person is accountable on the basis of the evidence to come to a proper understanding of God and not to be seeking some false god. God also requires that those who come to Him truly believe that He is not a God of caprice or trickery but a God who “rewards those who diligently seek Him.”

What is it that any sincere seeker should already have concluded about the God he wants to know? Reason and evidence dictate the following: To create the universe, God must be all-powerful (omnipotent) and all-knowing (omniscient) and in touch with every part of the universe at once (omnipresent). He would have to be at least as personal a Being as we are in order to create us. He would need to perfectly embody all that we recognize as the highest qualities to which mankind could aspire—love, truth, justice, patience, kindness, compassion, etc.—or there would be no explanation for our admiration of such attributes. Furthermore, He would have to know the future consequences of every action in His universe. Otherwise, He could make some terrible blunders. And of course He must have existed eternally as God. He certainly couldn’t have evolved or developed out of something or someone that was less than God.

The true God must also be able to create everything out of  nothing  and not just build or manufacture His universe out of materials already available. Not energy, not matter, not gravity or electricity, but  God alone  must be self-existent in order to be the cause of all. Finally, He must be perfectly good and just, or there would be no explanation for the common recognition of right and wrong written in the conscience of all mankind all over this earth. These are the minimum qualifications of the true God, without which we couldn’t trust and worship and love Him.

Although we can understand the necessity of the above abilities, it is also completely beyond our capacity to comprehend such a Being: a God who has  always  existed and thus is without beginning or end; who not only created everything out of nothing but in order not to lose control of His creation must know where every subatomic particle in every atom ever was or ever will be; who must also know what every person who ever lived or ever will live has ever thought or ever will think or say or do, etc. Obviously, such a God is beyond our ability to fully comprehend.

At the same time that God is beyond our comprehension, however, we have seen that both reason and evidence demand such a God as the only explanation for our own existence and that of the universe around us. To deny this God, though He is incomprehensible, would fly in the face of reason and common sense. It is both impossible and unreasonable for there to have been a time when nothing existed and to have everything, including God, somehow arise out of that void of nothingness. It is totally unreasonable to suggest that life and intelligence sprang unaided from dead, empty space and thereafter evolved by chance.

Having come to these conclusions about God on the basis of the evidence all around him and in his own conscience, the seeker is now in a position to cry out to this true God to reveal Himself. The precise steps and circumstances and inner convictions through which God will reveal Himself vary with each individual. It is through His Word, however, that the fullest and clearest revelation of God comes. And in this Word, God has revealed Himself in Jesus Christ, who declared, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John:14:9). Jesus also said, “No man cometh unto the Father but by me” (John:14:6). Whoever wants to know God must get to know Jesus. He is revealed in God’s Word, and He reveals Himself to those who open their hearts to Him. As He said, “Behold, I stand at the door [of every human heart] and knock; if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to him” (Revelation:3:20).

—  An excerpt   from  In Defense of the Faith (pp. 47-49)  by  Dave Hunt

 

[Professor_Physika]

Hi John81!

As you have posed what I can only presume is a question intended for me, I will, again, take the liberty of answering.

"Considering so many atheists take offense at even the thought of God, and many go to lengths to try and tell everyone there is no God, why not put forth evidence which proves atheism correct?"

First, I take issue with the assessment that "many" atheists are offended at even the thought of God. For one, "many" is pretty vague and, if you're trying to relay that the majority are offended, I disagree simply because I don't see that trend. I won't deny some are for whatever reason, but I can at least tell you I am not offended in the slightest.

My criticism with the contention that "many" go out of their way to tell people there is no God is much the same: namely that "many" is undefined and could possibly be irrelevant and I see that characterization of their opinion to be largely a strawman. Most atheists I know don't actively believe there are no gods, they simply lack the belief as I do.

But your final point is trickier. Atheism is the lack of belief of gods. Think of it like this: imagine someone lacks a belief in Bigfoot-- they are an "a-bigfootist". Do they have evidence that shows Bigfoot doesn't exist? Maybe, although it's seriously doubtful as we all know the issues with proving a negative. More than likely, they will examine the evidence that is supposedly in favor of Bigfoot's existence and then come to a conclusion therefrom. If they find it unconvincing, they are still an "a-bigfootist". This is directly analogous to how most atheists I know operate and I, too, follow this methodology.

Hi LindaR!

There are a few things wrong with the excerpt you've laid out as it will describe:

"Would someone seek God if he didn’t already believe He existed? It would be a waste of time. In fact, everyone, including you, knows that God exists."

I disagree that this would be a waste of time. In fact, if one began with the preconception that God existed, of course they would find God. It's a tautology, and, more importantly, it demonstrates a confirmation bias. Take scientific hypotheses for example (I know, God isn't science, but bear with me). Scientists form hypotheses based on educated guesses, but they don't actively believe their hypotheses. They performed experiments to test their hypotheses and come to a conclusion based on these tests. Sometimes the hypothesis holds up, but it usually is found to be incorrect or it has to be modified. In the same way a scientist doesn't have to be her/his hypothesis in order to discover its validity, I deny that I must believe in your god to discover if He exists.

""Yes, and not just a casual one. I’ve spent my life proving God doesn’t exist. It’s a pernicious myth!”"

First, let's be honest: not a lot of people act like this and this is probably a caricature drawn up for the sake of convenience of the story. That being said, because of this shallow characterization, it also overlooks some things. The atheist in the story admits he's not a casual atheist, so the logic that all atheists are fools because of the acts and convictions of this one is illogical. This story suggests that if the atheist in the story wasn't this radical and still filed for slander against the preacher, he would be successful in such a lawsuit because his radical nature wouldn't lend itself to the preacher's  point. I guess my point is that the story is so obviously scripted as to be laughable and blatantly unrealistic.

"God expects every person, as the first step in knowing Him, to admit the obvious fact that He exists."

This, to me, seems like an obvious demonstration of confirmation bias so I'm not quite sure how this is valid.

"Finally, He must be perfectly good and just, or there would be no explanation for the common recognition of right and wrong written in the conscience of all mankind all over this earth."

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find universal agreement concerning morals on any issue on the planet. Furthermore, sociopaths are notorious for specifically not being able to recognize what some would consider obviously "bad" acts.

I won't critique the rest of the excerpt as it goes into specifics that I think should be discussed at a later time, but that is my opinion on what the author has laid out.

Thanks  

 

[2bLikeJesus]

No one is naturally an atheist.  There has never been a single culture on the planet that hasn't believed there is a god.  You have to be educated into atheism through a brainwashing that goes against all the obvious evidence of an intelligent creator and divine order to the universe.  That is either through an aggressive indoctrination of atheist beliefs or I have found just as common, some horribly traumatic event in the atheists life that they have blamed God for, rather than the prince of this world Satan.  Many times once an atheist understands God and how He truly is and interacts with man, he comes to understand that the traumatic events that had them so angry were NOT from God but from sin and Gods purposeful creation of man with a free moral spirit and not an automaton robot that must do exactly as God wills.  It requires FAR more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian.

I find also just as often an atheist really doesn't believe there is no god, but is really an agnostic who believes you can't know god or that god no longer has any direct involvement in the daily lives of mankind.  They acknowledge the obvious irrefutable evidence of intelligent order and design in the universe and nature but believe any influence by a supreme being stopped at that, and we are left to fend for ourselves as we see fit. 

Bro. Garry

 

Edited June 21, 2015 by 2bLikeJesus

[LindaR]

Professor_Physika...

I didn't expect that you would agree with the article by Dave Hunt.  Just because you disagree with the content does not mean that you are correct or that the content is wrong.  Your critique is simply your own opinion.   You will find out how worthless opinions are when you die and face God, your Creator.  If you believe that this life is all there is, you are in for a great big surprise.  Believe it or not, you are not going to be annihilated.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Professor_Physika]

Hi LindaR

"I didn't expect that you would agree with the article by Dave Hunt.  Just because you disagree with the content does not mean that you are correct or that the content is wrong.  Your critique is simply your own opinion."

That's fine, I was simply answering some of the objectionable material I found therein. In order for future discussion to be more fruitful, might I respectfully suggest you respond to my critiques so that I may understand the errors in my opinion? Thanks  

"You will find out how worthless opinions are when you die and face God, your Creator.  If you believe that this life is all there is, you are in for a great big surprise.  Believe it or not, you are not going to be annihilated."

If I die an atheist and face God, I will be as honest with Him then as I am with you now. But perhaps this thread is getting off-topic. Please tell me further what you and other users believe about atheists and why?

Thanks  

[LindaR]

This is what I believe about atheists:  I don't believe there is such a person as a true atheist.  The reason why is in the God's Word (Romans 1:18-23). 

[Professor_Physika]

Hi LindaR!

Can you define "true atheist"? Also, what does the converse term, "false atheist", imply in meaning?

Thanks