Matthew 24

[Standing Firm In Christ]

PrOBably the "several times" part.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The words "temple" and "body", appear together in only one verse in the Pauline epistles.

[LindaR]

In Matthew 24:2, Jesus was telling His disciples what would happen to the present temple:

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

The Olivet Discourse  (Matthew 24-25) has not been fulfilled.  In Matthew 24:3, the disciples asked Jesus 3 questions.  Only the first question was fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Roman armies of Titus . 

 

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

The remainder of the Olivet Discourse deals with the answers to the other two questions and their fulfillment is yet future:

 

There will be 2 more temples (literal buildings) built.  There are 2 groups of Orthodox Jews working on the rebuilding of the third temple (Tribulation Temple: 2 Thess. 2:4; Revelation 11:1-2).  The two groups of Orthodox Jews are The Temple Mount Faithful and The Temple Institute.  These groups are very close to beginning the rebuilding process.  This is the temple where the abomination of desolation will occur (Daniel 9:27b; Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14)

At the end of the 7 year tribulation period, there will be another temple built (Millennial Temple) where Jesus Christ will rule from David's throne in Jerusalem.  The very presence of God will be in that Millennial Temple.

[HappyChristian]

The Holy Spirit indwells individual people. the temple referred to in 1 Cor. 6 is the temple of our individual bodies. Not the corporate body of our churches. Context shows that from verse 15 on into the 7th chapter.

[Invicta]

I thought that is what you were referring to. A commonly taught theory, but because it is what is usually taught it doesn't mean it is correct.  The great thing about the KJV is that it has singular and plural pronouns,  Take notice if them.
                                        pl                pl     s       s         s                                                s      pl               pl 

 1 Cor 6:18, What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God,   

 

There is one body and one temple, Not for your theory to be correct it would have to say something like "Know ye not that your bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit.

 

Matt 18:20  For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

[Steve Schwenke]

Jesus' Olivet prophecy interrelates with 2 Thes. 2 & Daniel 9 - the destruction.

Preterists insist that Daniel's 70 "weeks" are contiguous.  This means that the 70 "weeks" would have been completed before 40 AD.

Preterists cannot "reconcile" Paul's epistle to the Thessalonians, where it says:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,

and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,

or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.  2 Thes 2:3-4

 

We recognise a true prophet by the fulfilment of the prophecy. The inspired record of first C history stops short of the destruction. OBvious 2 Thes. 2 has to occur before 2 Thes. 1, & the 2nd coming refs in 1 Thes. All we know in detail about the destruction is from uninspired historians - mainly non-Christian. There is no doubt that the destruction took place within the lifetime of the generation that rejected their Messiah, but there were no believers there to record it. They acted on Jesus' warnings in his Olivet prophecy to flee the city when they saw the signs.

 

2 Thes. 2 was prophesied  & we know Paul's letters were passed round - presumably copied - & his writings would have been widely known - not just to the recipients.  The destruction was not going to happen while the believers were still in the city, so that what withholdeth (the Jerusalem church) and he who now letteth  (James - the Jerusalem church leader) would be taken out of the way (by martyrdom or flight.) There are clues as to how to recognise the man of sin, aka antichrist, but they are not positively identified in Scripture. In his parable of the husbandmen, Jesus spoke of coming to destroy those who rejected him. As he then gives the vineyard to others, that is not his final coming for resurrection & judgment. 2 Thes. 1.  

 

So what about the 70th week - ending a few years after Calvary? Dan. 9:24-27 

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week refers to the Messiah's earthly ministry until Calvary, & then the Apostolic ministry, the week ending with the Jewish leaders finally being declared "uncircumcised" & the Gospel being opened to Gentiles without circumcision. Many thousands of Jews welcomed the Gospel, so proving themselves true Israelites. John 1:47 Luke 19:9 Believing Israelites & the Apostles were persecuted, rejected & scattered. These are the others, to whom the vineyard is given. The covenant is confirmed with them. Jerusalem & the temple & the old covenant rituals are no longer relevant in God's saving purposes. 

 

In his grace God extends the time for repentance to a whole generation after the 70th week ended - 40 years - but that time ran out. Hebrews 3 urges repentance as he saw the time running out. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

 

No need for spiritualising, nor allegorising, nor inventing a new interpretation system, just read the Word, in context, comparing related Scriptures & accept & believe what is written. 

   

This highlighted portion in RED - all I can say is "WOW."  

Upon what Scriptural principle did you contrive this (fanciful) interpretation? 

James plays a minor role in the history of the church, at least according to the Book of Acts, and yet in your scheme he plays a PIVOTAL role????  

 

This is private interpretation based on personal conjecture, designed to fit a preconceived notion.  The legal term is "prejudice," which means that you have judged a situation prior to knowing all of the facts about it.  

 

There is certainly not one shred of Biblical evidence to support this private interpretation, and it does not fit the demands of the text.  

 

Nice try though....I'll give you an "A" for originality....or did you get that idea from a commentary somewhere????

[Covenanter]

This highlighted portion in RED - all I can say is "WOW."  

Upon what Scriptural principle did you contrive this (fanciful) interpretation? 

James plays a minor role in the history of the church, at least according to the Book of Acts, and yet in your scheme he plays a PIVOTAL role????  

 

This is private interpretation based on personal conjecture, designed to fit a preconceived notion.  The legal term is "prejudice," which means that you have judged a situation prior to knowing all of the facts about it.  

 

There is certainly not one shred of Biblical evidence to support this private interpretation, and it does not fit the demands of the text.  

 

Nice try though....I'll give you an "A" for originality....or did you get that idea from a commentary somewhere????

Thanks for marking my explanation so highly. 

 

The Scriptural justification is that James played an important role in the Jerusalem church:

 

Peter singles out James among the brethren:  Acts 12:17

 

James appears to be chairing the Acts 15 conference, summing up & writing the letter to the churches;  Acts 15:13-21

 

Paul reports to James & all the elders (unnamed) Acts 21:18

 

James has a special mention as witness of the risen Lord: 1 Cor. 15:7

 

Paul recognises James' Apostolic position: Gal:1:19 , Gal. 2:9-12 as a "pillar" with Cephas & John, with  authority in the Jerusalem church. (Mainly Jewish)

 

James writes his epistle to the 12 tribes, James 1:1 & Jude claims being brother to James when he writes: Jude 1:1. Clearly James had authority in the Jerusalem church.  

 

Early church history including Josephus records James' position of authority & martyrdom.

 

The Church Father Origen, who consulted the works of Josephus in around 248, related an account of the death of James, an account which gave it as a cause of the Roman siege of Jerusalem, something not found in our current manuscripts of Josephus. 

 

It is perfectly consistent with Paul in 2 Thes. 2:7 to consider James as the one who hindered the rise of the man of sin. It is also consistent to consider the Jerusalem church to be what withholdeth. After all, Jesus gaven them the warning signs so they would know when to flee the city before its destruction. Luke 21:20-22 

[HappyChristian]

 

I thought that is what you were referring to. A commonly taught theory, but because it is what is usually taught it doesn't mean it is correct.  The great thing about the KJV is that it has singular and plural pronouns,  Take notice if them.
                                        pl                pl     s       s         s                                                s      pl               pl 

 1 Cor 6:18, What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God,   

 

There is one body and one temple, Not for your theory to be correct it would have to say something like "Know ye not that your bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit.

 

Matt 18:20  For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

It is not a theory, it is Bible.  Pulling one verse out of many that  help explain what that one verse is teaching does not a doctrine make.  Context is vital for true understanding.   As does dovetailing with other verses.

 

1 Cor 3 clearly teaches the same principle  -  Speaking about "any man", etc - "Know ye not [note that the same "ye" is used...plural, yes, but speaking to individuals, not just a church body] that ye are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, whose temple ye are." 

 

2 Cor. 6:16 "...WE are the temple of the living God..."  Paul wasn't part of the Corinthian church...the "we" there was inclusive of him and any other believer...

 

1 Tim 1:13, 14  "Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me...that good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us."

 

Rom. 8:9-11 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

 

John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

 

The Greek meaning for the word we have in Engish as temple is : "a temple, a shrine, that part of the temple where God himself resides."  God dwells within His people individually.

 

Yes, most definitely where two or three Christians are gathered, God is there.  How can He be otherwise when He indwells believers individually.  Teaching that it is only the corporate body removes individual responsibility to remain right with God...

 

There are more, but I think these will suffice. During the OT economy, God dwelt in the temple made by hands...but now He indwells individuals as noted by these few verses. 

 

For sure, where 2 or 3 are gathered He is there...but not in the same way that He was in the OT - by simply coming on them.  But by indwelling. 

[HappyChristian]

Gotta say I totally disagree that the Jerusalem church was what was referenced as withholding....

[Jim_Alaska]

Teaching like this is true to the reason that Covey says in his bio that he is not Independent Baptist. I may have been out of the loop, so-to-speak, for many years, But this kind of nonsence makes me glad of it. I have never heard such nonsensical teaching.

 

This kind of teaching is why the Scripture specifically says: " 2Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

 

 

Scripture has to be horribly tortured to come to the conclusions Covey has posted.

[Covenanter]

Gotta say I totally disagree that the Jerusalem church was what was referenced as withholding....

 

 

Teaching like this is true to the reason that Covey says in his bio that he is not Independent Baptist. I may have been out of the loop, so-to-speak, for many years, But this kind of nonsence makes me glad of it. I have never heard such nonsensical teaching.

 

This kind of teaching is why the Scripture specifically says: " 2Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

 

 

Scripture has to be horribly tortured to come to the conclusions Covey has posted.

 

I quote Scripture to support what I believe. It is NOT a private interpretation. 

 

Now I challenge you - quote Scripture to (1) show my reasoning from Scripture to be false, & (2) show your own reasoning.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

What Scripture? Where does it say
James is who is being spoken of in 2 Thes. 2?

[HappyChristian]

Ian, you didn't use scripture to show that James and the Jerusalem church were what were withholding.  You surmised, and there is no real scriptural support for that.  James did not have the power to hold back the mystery of iniquity. Only the Holy Spirit can do that.

[Covenanter]

What Scripture? Where does it say
James is who is being spoken of in 2 Thes. 2?

The leading Christian in Jerusalem before the destruction was James, as I have shown. Have you other suggestions, derived from Scripture?  

 

Ian, you didn't use scripture to show that James and the Jerusalem church were what were withholding.  You surmised, and there is no real scriptural support for that.  James did not have the power to hold back the mystery of iniquity. Only the Holy Spirit can do that.

So where does Scripture teach that the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The leading Christian in Jerusalem before the destruction was James, as I have shown. Have you other suggestions, derived from Scripture?  

and this proves James is "He who letteth" how?
 

So where does Scripture teach that the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way?

2Thessalonians 2:6-7