Understanding Hebrews - 3

[Covenanter]

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

² For by it the elders OBtained a good report.

³ Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

⁴ By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he OBtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

⁵ By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

⁶ But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

Faith is here given many positive attributes:

substance giving hope; 1

evidence of unseen reality;   1

basis for a good report;  2

understanding of the substance of creation out of nothing by God's word;  3, 

understanding of sacrifice in righteousness; 4, 

witness to the resurrection; 4, 5, 6

means of pleasing God;    5, 6

confidence in the existence of God;  6

expectation of reward;  6

a diligent search for God.   6

 

In this chapter, faith is expressed by an active life - a life that so trusts God that believers are prepared to do extraordinary things, even die, rather than deny their God. And their faith is vindicated by God. 

 

 

[Covenanter]

It has been suggest/claimed that in the various dispensations, there are different requirements for salvation, & that only in the present Gospel/Grace dispensation are we saved by faith without works - other than works that are evidence of our faith - as James points out. 

 

Hebrews 11 covers several of the dispensations, but in each the same active, living faith in God is commended as pleasing God. There is no reason to suppose that by offering sacrifices, building the ark, leaving home, having a baby, etc, required an understanding of typology & the atoning sacrifice of Christ. They believed God, & lived & acted as believers in their various circumstances. 

 

They only had a partial revelation of God's Word. We now have a complete revelation. How do we, actually, in practice,  live by faith in the light of their examples & God's perfect & complete revelation? Ezr. 9:6 Heb. 12:1-2

 

Edited to add:

We do see to some extent a progressive understanding in Heb. 11 , particularly with Abraham & Moses, whereby as they lived by faith, they were given further revelation. Also, we see the hope of promise fulfilment in a better resurrection, so that those dying for their faith maintained their faith & hope in God. And they knew Messiah was coming. 

Edited January 11, 2015 by Covenanter

[Covenanter]

Bible study this afternoon with 3 English & 3 Indian, 1 needing Punjabi translation.

 

We studied Hebrews 1:1-4 & Heb. 2:9-18 concluding with Heb. 3:1

[Genevanpreacher]

Punjabi?

[Alan]

Covenantor,

 

Thank you for pointing out Hebrews chapter 11 expressly teaches that salvation, in any dispensation, is by grace through faith. Also, as you correctly pointed out that the Book of James concurs with justification by grace through faith and that works are an evidence of salvation. Praise the Lord! It is a sad day and age when fundamental brethren cannot see that salvation in every dispensation is by grace through faith. No works for salvation are necessary in any dispensation.

 

You also corrrectly point out that Hebrews10:5-14 teaches that the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross was the only sacrifice needed for salvation.

 

The only point that I beg to differ was that you state that the millennial temple, from Ezekiel Chapter 40-48, "...cannot refer to millennial sacrifices of animals by a human priesthood." May you permit me to disagree.

 

The Jewish priesthood, and the related literal animal saciffices in the Millennial Temple, are not for taking away sin in any sense.

 

The sacrifices are literal; Ezekiel 44: 29-31; 45: 15-25; 46: 1-15; 19 and 20

 

The sacrifices are in remembrance of the one and effectual sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ and Ezekiel further teaches us another reason why the sacrifices, and literal human priesthood will proceed during the Millenium. Ezekiel 44:15 and 16 plainly state that the Levites, of the sons of Zodak,  will again minister in the sactuary, and Ezekiel 44: 23 plainly states, "And they [the priests; verse 15 and 16] shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean."

 

The reason for the sacrifies in the Millenial reign of Christ is for teaching holiness to the people. Which, by the way, was one of the duties of the priest under the Law, "And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean." Leviticus 10:10 And, may I further state, it is the duty and solemn OBligation of every minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ to preach and teach holiness and to discern between the clean and unclean.

 

Respectully,

AlanTaiwan

Edited January 24, 2015 by AlanTaiwan

[Genevanpreacher]

Covenantor,

 

Thank you for pointing out Hebrews chapter 11 expressly teaches that salvation, in any dispensation, is by grace through faith. Also, as you correctly pointed out that the Book of James concurs with justification by grace through faith and that works are an evidence of salvation. Praise the Lord! It is a sad day and age when fundamental brethren cannot see that salvation in every dispensation is by grace through faith. No works for salvation are necessary in any dispensation.

 

You also corrrectly point out that Hebrews10:5-14 teaches that the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross was the only sacrifice needed for salvation.

 

The only point that I beg to differ was that you state that the millennial temple, from Ezekiel Chapter 40-48, "...cannot refer to millennial sacrifices of animals by a human priesthood." May you permit me to disagree.

 

The Jewish priesthood, and the related literal animal saciffices in the Millennial Temple, are not for taking away sin in any sense.

 

The sacrifices are literal; Ezekiel 44: 29-31; 45: 15-25; 46: 1-15; 19 and 20

 

The sacrifices are in remembrance of the one and effectual sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ and Ezekiel further teaches us another reason why the sacrifices, and literal human priesthood will proceed during the Millenium. Ezekiel 44:15 and 16 plainly state that the Levites, of the sons of Zodak,  will again minister in the sactuary, and Ezekiel 44: 23 plainly states, "And they [the priests; verse 15 and 16] shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean."

 

The reason for the sacrifies in the Millenial reign of Christ is for teaching holiness to the people. Which, by the way, was one of the duties of the priest under the Law, "And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean." Leviticus 10:10 And, may I further state, it is the duty and solemn OBligation of every minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ to preach and teach holiness and to discern between the clean and unclean.

 

Respectully,

AlanTaiwan

 

23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.

25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.

26 And after he is cleansed, they shall reckon unto him seven days.

27 *And in the day that he goeth into the sanctuary, unto the inner court, to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering, saith the Lord GOD.

28 And it shall be unto them for an inheritance: I am their inheritance: and ye shall give them no possession in Israel: I am their possession.

29 They shall eat the *meat offering, and the *sin offering, and the *trespass offering; and every dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs.

30 And the first of all the firstfruits of all things, and every OBlation of all, of every sort of your OBlations, shall be the priest's: ye shall also give unto the priest the first of your dough, that he may cause the blessing to rest in thine house.

31 The priests shall not eat of any thing that is dead of itself, or torn, whether it be fowl or beast.

 

*Sounds like they are offering for different sins to me here. Which is a little bit different than you post.

 

I also do not understand the timing here, in reference to a 'millenium'. Why do people teach that this has anything

to do with the 'thousand year' reign of Christ?

Edited January 24, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[Covenanter]

Thanks for the comments, Alan & GP. 

 

I don't think Ezekiel's temple prophecy can mean acceptable animal sacrifices for sin AFTER Calvary. Folk on the forum have profound differences on the interpretation of prophecy - interpretations that can only be vindicated when they happen. Deut. 18:18-22  I accept the comments but it would derail the thread to argue prophecy, when I (we) are seeking to understand & apply Hebrews for the present Gospel age of grace. 

 

Hebrews makes it clear:

10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[Covenanter]

When we look at the expectation of the faithful in Heb. 11, we see a confidence in God so great that suffering & death for their faith would be be fully vindicated, in spite of the mocking & persecution by the ungodly. We need to pray for our suffering brothers & sisters in troubled areas of the world, & give financial support to the various agencies that minister to them. Government aid, given in our name, goes to the persecutors. 

 

Abraham believed God, but did not receive the promises in his long life. Heb. 11:8-11 It would be more than 400 years before the land promises were fulfilled. Gen. 15 He looked beyond fulfilment on earth, to a heavenly country. 

 

That is our hope also - Heb. 11:39-40 We should have a tremendous faith - confidence - in our Saviour God & his covenant promises that, as we take encouragement from that cloud of witnesses, we run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith....   

[Covenanter]

This new hymn "By Faith" expresses the theme of Hebrews 11, with the chorus based on the opening of Heb. 12:1-2

 

Townend - By Faith.

 

I hope it won't be rejected as CCM - we sang it unaccompanied this morning, & I play these using my keyboard organ register. 

[John81]

This new hymn "By Faith" expresses the theme of Hebrews 11, with the chorus based on the opening of Heb. 12:1-2

 

Townend - By Faith.

 

I hope it won't be rejected as CCM - we sang it unaccompanied this morning, & I play these using my keyboard organ register. 

Good song but I prefer to hear Kristyn sing it.

[Invicta]

This new hymn "By Faith" expresses the theme of Hebrews 11, with the chorus based on the opening of Heb. 12:1-2

 

Townend - By Faith.

 

I hope it won't be rejected as CCM - we sang it unaccompanied this morning, & I play these using my keyboard organ register. 

 

 

The following quote is from David Cloud and I broadly agree with him.

 

 

It is like ally's camel.

 

 

First, in practice, Getty/Townend represent the “one-world church.” 

Second, to use their material is to build bridges to the extremely dangerous world that they represent. “Fundamentalists” who build these bridges will eventually bring the corruption of that world into their churches. It has been happening for two decades, and the pace of change is increasing before our very eyes.

In this age of the Internet, it is impossible to use materials by contemporary musicians without building bridges that our church members will inevitably cross, particularly young people. They are going to Google “Getty/Townend,” and many of them are going to be influenced by them, and some are going to be influenced deeply.

As I have said, I have never known of a Baptist church becoming Lutheran by singing Luther’s hymns or even becoming Roman Catholic by singing one or two old hymns written by Catholics (thought I don’t recommend the latter), but I have known of dozens of churches that have become contemporary by messing around with contemporary music, EVEN THOUGH THIS PATH INVARIABLY STARTS IN A “SMALL” AND “CAUTIOUS” MANNER.

Dr. Garlock makes the point that of the 70 songs in Rejoice Hymns, only eight are from SGM (Sovereign Grace) and GTM (Getty Townend). 

True, but where will things be in five years? Ten years? Twenty years? 

Dr. Garlock is justifying the crossing of an important threshold, and it will be impossible to return to a former stance once the mistake has been recognized (if it ever is).

In his “Postlude,” Dr. Garlock acknowledges that we are living in a time of rapid change. He says, “It was easier to make decisions about which hymns to include 15 years ago because the lines were drawn more definitively than they are today.” He admits that “the consensus among conservatives was also much clearer.” 

That being the case, why let the Getty/Townends get their nose in the tent? Is it really time to be playing around with this stuff. Many men of God see Getty Townend as dangerous. Why push the boundaries? 

Dr. Garlock says, “Some Christians have told us that they only use music from ministries with which they totally agree.” 

I don’t know who says this. I certainly don’t say it. I doubt that such a standard is even possible. 

What I say is that it is wise to avoid the contemporary crowd, including the Gettys, because they represent a very dangerous world. 

Who are Getty/Townend? Are they really “conservative”? Do they really love sound doctrine? 

Conservative-sounding statements by these men must be interpreted in the context of their lives and ministries and associations. It is a case in which “what you do speaks louder than what you say.” In my decades of research into the ecumenical movement, I have often sat in conferences with media credentials and thought to myself, “This man sounds biblically sound; why then can he hold hands with Roman Catholics and liberals and charismatics and support the heresies that he supports by his unscriptural associations?” I can’t answer to motives. I only know that even a sincere man can be very wrong, and I know that the ecumenism is wrong according to God’s Word. And it is not a light matter; it is a major part of how the “one-world church” is being built. 

Consider the following statement that Dr. Garlock quotes from Stuart Townend:

“It is so important that our lives are built not on our feelings or circumstances, but on the Word of God, and songs can really help us to meditate on and retain truth”? 

Most “fundamentalists” reading those words would conclude that Townend is opposed to charismatic mysticism and devoted to the truth of God’s Word. But if this is true, why is he a member of a charismatic church that supports the “extraordinary manifestations of the Spirit”? And how can he support the Alpha program which bridges charismatic, Baptist, Protestant, and Roman Catholic churches? 

Like that pioneer ecumenist Billy Graham, Stuart Townend is “Mr. Facing Two Ways.” He speaks passionately about the truth at times even while holding hands with the “broader church” in all of its unscriptural facets and heresies and end-time apostasies.

In fact, Townend is very radical in his doctrinal thinking and appears to be in love with a false christ. 

 

When asked, “What would Jesus sing?” Townend replied:

“I think he would be doing thrash metal or hip hop or something where we’d go, ‘He can’t do that!’ Because I think he would be challenging our comfortable perceptions. I don’t know what he would sing or whose songs he would sing, but I believe he would do it in a way that would surprise and prOBably shock us” (“What Would Jesus Sing?” from an interview with Stuart Townend, TV series Principles of Praise, 2011,

'>

).

 

Does that sound like the statement of a man that Bible-believing Christians should be associating with? Is Townend’s thrash metal, hip-hop, “out to shock them” Jesus the Jesus that we know and serve? 

 

[Covenanter]

Good song but I prefer to hear Kristyn sing it.

 

I carefully chose a YT link that wasn't CCM. Most of their hymns are Scriptural, with simple tunes, but they can be CCM'ed.

 

The following quote is from David Cloud and I broadly agree with him.

 

It is like ally's camel.

 

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Last week I chose 4 hymns from "Christian Hymns." Pastor reported 2 comments:

1. "Why do we only sing the old hymns?"

2. "I do like to sing the old hymns."

& another comment direct to me:

3. "You are teaching us new hymns."

to which I replied:

"I am teaching you OLD hymns."

 

Can't win, can I  

 

The subject of CCM has often been discussed. I didn't post  "By Faith" to derail the thread, but to give a hymn directly relevant to the thread. Most of us remember what we sing better than what is preached. I often choose hymns by Getty & Townend, rarely by other modern writers.  I choose hymns that relate to the sermon topic. (Or in this case to the thread topic.)

 

Please read Hebrews 12 in preparation for my next posting. 

[John81]

I carefully chose a YT link that wasn't CCM. Most of their hymns are Scriptural, with simple tunes, but they can be CCM'ed.

 

Last week I chose 4 hymns from "Christian Hymns." Pastor reported 2 comments:

1. "Why do we only sing the old hymns?"

2. "I do like to sing the old hymns."

& another comment direct to me:

3. "You are teaching us new hymns."

to which I replied:

"I am teaching you OLD hymns."

 

Can't win, can I

 

The subject of CCM has often been discussed. I didn't post  "By Faith" to derail the thread, but to give a hymn directly relevant to the thread. Most of us remember what we sing better than what is preached. I often choose hymns by Getty & Townend, rarely by other modern writers.  I choose hymns that relate to the sermon topic. (Or in this case to the thread topic.)

 

Please read Hebrews 12 in preparation for my next posting. 

The one I like with Kristyn singing is just her husband at the piano and her singing. I can't recall if that was from a Baptist church they sang in or if that was from the TV interview show.

 

The CCM radio stations don't play Getty music because there is a clear distinction between their hymns and the CCM they play. The only station I've heard Getty music on is a station that plays hymns and choirs singing hymns.

 

You can never please everyone with the music selection. If Rock of Ages is on the list someone will complain because Amazing Grace wasn't while another will say Old Rugged Cross should have been included.

 

Considering what the Word has to say about complaining and murmuring it's amazing at how much of that goes on in churches over what hymns are, and are not, used a given Sunday.

[Covenanter]

I usually send a list of the hymns to about half the congregation, together with Youtube links. 

 

As we move from Heb. 11 to 12, we see the OT believers living by faith in the promises of God, but not receiving the promises in their lifetime. Some suffered greatly for their faith. Did Joshua (Jesus in Heb. 4:8 ) give them the promised rest when they took possession of the promised land? No, & in this Gospel age, the rest we have through our salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ is certainly not a physical rest in this life. The implication is that the promised rest is first spiritual ( Rom. 5:1 ) then eternal. Eternal life begins at conversion ( John 3:16 ) & is not extinguished by death. So the spiritual rest continues through life & death. It must - it is secured by our relationship with our Saviour. 

 

The heroes of faith listed in Hebrews 11 are now enjoying their eternal rest, but their life & example continues so that Hebrews can speak of a cloud of witnesses. They were faithful, receiving only a partial revelation. We have the complete revelation of Jesus and his Apostles. Can we be less faithful than the OT believers? We have the witness of Christ himself. We know the resurrection - we know our risen Saviour. 

 

Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

[Covenanter]

Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, ² Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

³ For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. ⁴ Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

⁵ And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: ⁶ For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

⁷ If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Expect trouble - aka tribulation - in this life, and realise that our Lord is disciplining us. Jesus told us so: John 16:³³ These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.  Paul affirmed this: Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.  

We are not to expect peace & riches in this life. The LORD warned Israel through Moses not to rest content in the promised land, & so forget the LORD who had led them there. We have the godly example of the faithful believers in Heb. 11, who persisted in following their LORD through much tribulation. 

I suspect that most of us in the UK & USA are living in relative peace, & not suffering any serious tribulation. Does that mean we are specially blessed? Not according to Heb. 12:8 onwards.

We need to recognise our trouble for what they really are. It may be the direct result of sin & disobedience, to lead us to fresh repentance & returning to our Lord & Saviour. But our troubles may be the direct result of our faithful service arousing hostility from the ungodly - as our Lord experienced. It's easy to love a congregation that supports its Pastor in gifts & prayers, when when it is a hostile, even violent reaction, do we love our enemies, as our Lord taught? 

And are we lovingly supporting our suffering brothers & sisters by prayer & gifts, AND lovingly praying for those who are evidently enemies of the Gospel? Lost sinners, who do not realise they are fighting against God.