Dispensations

[Calvary]

I don't mean any disrespect toward Mr. Blue, but he lost me (in the Kingdom of Heaven video) when he proclaimed that God's original plan was for man to populate the earth and then move into outer space.

 

He simply is referring to the scope of the Kingdom through eternity - not too difficult. If the kingdom of Christ has no end as it says in Isaiah, where does that take you if Adam had not sinned and with the population never ceasing with there being no death? It´s not a convoluted idea..... and again, one line out of a 50 minute session  is not the foundational ground that it all stands or falls upon..... what about the entire session in general???

So where would the population of earth ended if there had been no sin and no death coming into the world? after 6 or 7 thousand years we´d be piled up upon each other with no room at all.... sort of makes sense that God never intended to confine man to this earth alone.....

[No Nicolaitans]

He simply is referring to the scope of the Kingdom through eternity - not too difficult. If the kingdom of Christ has no end as it says in Isaiah, where does that take you if Adam had not sinned and with the population never ceasing with there being no death? It´s not a convoluted idea..... and again, one line out of a 50 minute session  is not the foundational ground that it all stands or falls upon..... what about the entire session in general???

So where would the population of earth ended if there had been no sin and no death coming into the world? after 6 or 7 thousand years we´d be piled up upon each other with no room at all.... sort of makes sense that God never intended to confine man to this earth alone.....

 

We don't know how the population would have grown had Adam not sinned. We don't know what measures God would have employed to control (or not control) the population. We don't know any of that...because Adam did sin...and we are dealing with the results of that.

 

What we do know is this...

 

Isaiah 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

 

As far as the whole session in general; I agree with a lot of what he teaches...I'm not "anti-dispensational". I've studied Dispensational Theology, and my beliefs line up with most of what I've studied...my main conflict is different methods of salvation for different dispensations.  

 

But that's me...

[DaveW]

It's not just you NN.........

[AVBibleBeliever]

Just throwing these OT scriptures out here, see where they go.

 

 

Ezekiel 3:20

"Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand."

 

Ezekiel 18:21-27:

"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive."

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim2:15

 

I assume you are mature enough to figure it out for yourself.

[DaveW]

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim2:15

I assume you are mature enough to figure it out for yourself.

Now you see, THAT is a condescending remark.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Now you see, THAT is a condescending remark.

He's always reliable for that.

[Calvary]

We don't know how the population would have grown had Adam not sinned. We don't know what measures God would have employed to control (or not control) the population. We don't know any of that...because Adam did sin...and we are dealing with the results of that.

 

What we do know is this...

 

Isaiah 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

 

As far as the whole session in general; I agree with a lot of what he teaches...I'm not "anti-dispensational". I've studied Dispensational Theology, and my beliefs line up with most of what I've studied...my main conflict is different methods of salvation for different dispensations.  

 

But that's me...

 

 

I think the idea is form this, Isa 9:7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

No end to it. To limit it to this earth alone is to limit the increase. That being said, Isaiah 45 would not be negated if other worlds were to be populated. The population of another planet does not necessaarily mean the disoccupation of earth.

 

Besides, I know this man well, he would harldy have an issue with you if you disagreed with him on this extremely minor point.

 

I will say this, I cannot imagine the Lord employing any means to control the population since his stated purpose to Adam was to be fruitful and multiply. It doesn´t seem to suggest anywhere in the Bible that Adam´s race should only multiply until such time as there is no room

 

?????

 

God bless,

calvary
 

[AVBibleBeliever]

Dispensational Theology does not present different means of salvation, it presents a method of acting out ones faith that is different than todays method which is based on inward Faith only on the finished work of the cross.

 

No one prior to Paul's Teaching had any idea of Christ finished work for the salvation of all men by faith alone.  The apostles knew that the death burial and resurrection was a fulfilled scriptures that Jesus was the Christ, their Messiah. We today are not required to believe Jesus is the Messiah as they were in the gospel writings.

 

Israel with the law of Moses, their faith was upon God's word and the keeping of it faithfully not only for their life in the land but for everlasting life after they died.  Not that they were justified by works but that when the Cross was finally finished that sacrifice would be retroactive to all who by faith made those sacrifices in the past.

 

The Millennial Video is quite interesting as it address the truth of sacrifices during the Kingdom.  Which many Christians just can't wrap their theology around it so they call it heresy or blasphemy.  But it is there in God's word in  Zachariah 14, many deal with it by saying it is ALL past events so doesn't apply but they would have to ignore most of the scriptures that speak on the future Kingdom we now know is 1000 years long.

[prophet1]

Dispensational Theology does not present different means of salvation, it presents a method of acting out ones faith that is different than todays method which is based on inward Faith only on the finished work of the cross.

No one prior to Paul's Teaching had any idea of Christ finished work for the salvation of all men by faith alone. The apostles knew that the death burial and resurrection was a fulfilled scriptures that Jesus was the Christ, their Messiah. We today are not required to believe Jesus is the Messiah as they were in the gospel writings.

Israel with the law of Moses, their faith was upon God's word and the keeping of it faithfully not only for their life in the land but for everlasting life after they died. Not that they were justified by works but that when the Cross was finally finished that sacrifice would be retroactive to all who by faith made those sacrifices in the past.

The Millennial Video is quite interesting as it address the truth of sacrifices during the Kingdom. Which many Christians just can't wrap their theology around it so they call it heresy or blasphemy. But it is there in God's word in Ezk 14, many deal with it by saying it is ALL past events so doesn't apply but they would have to ignore most of the scriptures that speak on the future Kingdom we now know is 1000 years long.

Ezekiel 14?

Is that the right chapter?

I'm sorry, but there is no prophecy of the coming kingdom in Ezekiel 14.
Perhaps you meant a different chapter?

I'm trying to follow.

[No Nicolaitans]

I think the idea is form this, Isa 9:7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

No end to it. To limit it to this earth alone is to limit the increase. That being said, Isaiah 45 would not be negated if other worlds were to be populated. The population of another planet does not necessaarily mean the disoccupation of earth.

 

Besides, I know this man well, he would harldy have an issue with you if you disagreed with him on this extremely minor point.

 

I will say this, I cannot imagine the Lord employing any means to control the population since his stated purpose to Adam was to be fruitful and multiply. It doesn´t seem to suggest anywhere in the Bible that Adam´s race should only multiply until such time as there is no room

 

?????

 

God bless,

calvary
 

 

Perhaps I chose poor wording, but I was trying to be discreet. I'll just come out and say it though...by "control the population", I meant that we don't know how often ovulation would have occurred before sin. We just don't know.  There are many factors that could have changed due to the curse from sin entering into the world.

 

Moving into outer space seems far-fetched to me since the Bible says that earth is what God created to be inhabited. Again, we don't know what God's plan was...all that we can do is speculate...

 

Move to outerspace...or...

God would cause the earth to grow in size as the population grew...or...

Women only ovulated once a year, or ten years, or one hundred years, etc.

 

Anyway, I want you to know that I'm not arguing with you. Just explaining my position.

[John81]

That is an interesting thought. I've often noted that in many cases where Scripture tells us when a man's first child was born, they were a good many years old by then. Were maturity rates different then?

[MountainChristian]

 

Paul never taught that " belief or faith" on Jesus as "the Son of God" got anyone saved.

 

 We today are not required to believe Jesus is the Messiah as they were in the gospel writings.

 

Gentiles don't have Jesus as the Son of God or the Messiah (anointed one). When this "rightly divided" is done will there be any Jesus left? 

 

Can we deny part of Jesus? No, not if we are saved.

Mat 10:33

But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Timothy 2:2

12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

(That covers both ages)

[Covenanter]

Ezekiel 14?

Is that the right chapter?

I'm sorry, but there is no prophecy of the coming kingdom in Ezekiel 14.
Perhaps you meant a different chapter?

I'm trying to follow.

Ezekiel 14:21-23 is a clear prophecy of the AD 70 destruction, and closely parallels Revelation 6:8
Compare the sealing in Ezekiel 9 with Revelation 7 also.

The time indicated by Revelation 1:1-3 is soon after the vision and before the destruction. Try reading with that understanding.

[No Nicolaitans]

That is an interesting thought. I've often noted that in many cases where Scripture tells us when a man's first child was born, they were a good many years old by then. Were maturity rates different then?

 

I don't know John...I was just speculating.

 

By the way, I'm not implying that I hold to any of those speculations that I mentioned. My point was, we just don't know what God's original plan was before sin entered the world.  

 

My personal view about there being "no end" to the Lord's kingdom just means that when the Lord becomes King, his kingdom will last forever.

[AVBibleBeliever]

 

Gentiles don't have Jesus as the Son of God or the Messiah (anointed one). When this "rightly divided" is done will there be any Jesus left? 

 

Can we deny part of Jesus? No, not if we are saved.

Mat 10:33

But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Timothy 2:2

12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

(That covers both ages)

 

Does anyone get saved today because they believe Jesus is the Christ?  or the son of God? or the Messiah?