John Calvin Had It All Wrong

[Covenanter]

There is only one gospel, and that is Jesus died for OUR sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. (1 Cor 15:3-4)

 

Can you look an unbeliever in the eye and tell him that Jesus died for OUR sins as Paul did? 

Yes. I believe & preach the Scriptures.

[Miss Daisy]

:tapping:hopefully when you preach the Gospel you don't twist IT like you do the news! oh wait, yes you do, by telling them Israel isn't really Israel in the NT but the church...

[Winman]

Yes. I believe & preach the Scriptures.

 

Not what I asked. Can you look any person in the eye and tell them Jesus died for their sins personally as Paul did? 

 

Paul preached the gospel to unbelievers, and he told them;

 

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

Can you tell any person that Jesus died for their sins, or do you believe in Limited Atonement and that Jesus only died for "some" people?

[John81]

What did Edwards, Whitefield and Spurgeon preach? Three "Calvinists" with well recorded track records that are easy to access and study.

[Winman]

What did Edwards, Whitefield and Spurgeon preach? Three "Calvinists" with well recorded track records that are easy to access and study.

I wasn't there to hear them preach, so I cannot answer that question. 

 

Many Calvinists will say things like, "Jesus died for sinners", but this is only a half truth as it implies Jesus died for all sinners which 5 point Calvinists do not believe. If they were consistent with their view they could only say that Jesus died for "some" sinners, or that Jesus only died for "particular" sinners. 

 

A half truth is a whole lie. 

[John81]

Actually that was the point in bringing up those three. Their sermons, and in some cases most of their writings, are easily available for us to read. As well, testimonies and accounts of the results of their preaching are well recorded and easily available for us to investigate.

[Winman]

Actually that was the point in bringing up those three. Their sermons, and in some cases most of their writings, are easily available for us to read. As well, testimonies and accounts of the results of their preaching are well recorded and easily available for us to investigate.

 

Well, it is your claim, and therefore your responsibility to present evidence for your claim. Perhaps you can show some examples of their preaching?

 

Anybody can make blank statements without evidence. 

[John81]

What claim did I make other than we can all look up their sermons?

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

It is well known that Calvinists teach that Jesus didn't really die for all men. I have debated with several of them. Sure, you will find some people that are 4 or 3 point Calvinists and they may deny Limited Atonement. All that means is they are biblically wrong in 3 or 4 areas instead of 5.

[Winman]

What claim did I make other than we can all look up their sermons?

 

If you are going to imply that these Calvinists taught universal atonement, you need to provide proof. It is not up to us to investigate your claims, it is your responsibility to provide evidence for your claims. 

 

Imagine a defense lawyer arguing that his client was across town at the time a crime was committed, and then telling the prosecution to look and see for themselves!

 

That's not how it works, you have to show evidence for your claims. If the defense lawyer could show a video that his defendent was at the airport across town when the crime was committed, he would prove his claim. 

 

I can show you that Spurgeon did not believe in universal atonement;

 

“Some say that all men are Christ’s by purchase. But, beloved, you and I do not believe in a sham redemption which does not redeem. We do not believe in a universal redemption which extends even to those who were in hell before the Savior died, and which includes the fallen angels as well as unrepentant men.”

 

http://www.ligonier.org/blog/charles-spurgeon-calvinism-definite-atonement/

 

Spurgeon was very inconsistent, one day he said Christ died for all men, the next day he would contradict himself. 

[John81]

I implied nothing. I said exactly what I meant. Those three men are well-known "Calvinists" that we have access to their sermons and results of their preaching that we can investigate.

 

If one reads the totality of Spurgeon's sermons and writings, he is totally consistent in his position.

[Winman]

I implied nothing. I said exactly what I meant. Those three men are well-known "Calvinists" that we have access to their sermons and results of their preaching that we can investigate.

 

If one reads the totality of Spurgeon's sermons and writings, he is totally consistent in his position.

 

Baloney,

 

 

 

Next, Christ's Church is His by purchase. There are some who say that all men are Christ's by purchase. But, Beloved, you and I do not believe in a sham redemption which does not redeem! We do not believe in a universal redemption which extends even to those who were in Hell before the Savior died and which includes the fallen angels as well as unrepentant men. We believe in an effectual redemption and can never agree with those who would teach us that Christ's blood was shed in vain. The Good Shepherd laid down His life for His sheep. Christ loved His Church and gave Himself for it. He bought His own people with His blood. He purchased not the world's wide wilderness, but the "spot enclosed by Grace," the vineyard which His own right hand has planted!

 

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/spurgeon/sermons48.xxvi.html

 

Spurgeon taught Limited or Particular Atonement. He did not believe Jesus died for all men. 

 

Spurgeon is very clear here, he does not believe Jesus redeemed "unrepentant men".

 

Now you show evidence that Spurgeon believed Jesus died for all men, as I have shown you from his own words he did not. 

[heartstrings]

Covenanter,

Was it God's will that Felix should come to repentance, believe the Gospel, and be saved?

[John81]

I really don't understand why you continue to claim I've said things I've not. If you are just looking to argue, you'll have to look to others for that.

[Covenanter]

 

Covenanter, on 26 Jul 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

 

Yes. I believe & preach the Scriptures.

 

 

Not what I asked. Can you look any person in the eye and tell them Jesus died for their sins personally as Paul did? 

 

Paul preached the gospel to unbelievers, and he told them;

 

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

Can you tell any person that Jesus died for their sins, or do you believe in Limited Atonement and that Jesus only died for "some" people?

 

Your quote from Paul is from his letter to a church. Certainly I agree & preach Jesus death for our sins.

 

Can I tell a deliberate sinner the Jesus died for his sin, that God loves him personally? No! Jesus did NOT die to redeem the guilty sinners in hell. At the judgement, they cannot say, "Jesus died for my sins - how can you punish me as well for the same sins?" I believe in "particular redemption" - that Jesus died to save sinners, aka the elect.

 

Where do we find the Apostles preaching universal atonement? The Gospel invitation is always accompanied by warnings to the impenitent.

 

Acts 13:³⁸ Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

³⁹ And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

⁴⁰ Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

⁴¹ Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

 

Acts 17:³⁰ And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

³¹ Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

What do I preach to sinners? Several of my sermons are on the forum. e.g. My sermon on Jeremiah 23:6 - The LORD our Righteousness.

 

 

Can we continue in sin, trusting in a forgiving God? Certainly NOT!
Salvation is new life with the Holy Spirit living within us. Our baptism marks the end of a sinful, disOBedient life, and the beginning of a new life. The old life results in death and hell. The new life comes with a promise of heavenly glory.
Jesus by his cross suffered the wrath of his Father God against our sin. We cannot – we dare not, continue in sin. We are living a new life by faith in Jesus, the LORD our righteousness.
In Jesus, the LORD our Righteousness we have better promises – perfect forgiveness now; a living, loving relationship with our God who is love; a promise of glory in heaven when we die, and the ultimate perfection of resurrection to a new heaven and new earth.
Make sure YOU experience this wonderful salvation.
Amen.
Our closing hymn is a response to the Gospel call:
516 I hear thy welcome voice that calls me, Lord, to thee.
Hear the voice of Jesus calling in his Word, and come to him.

 

As John points out, Calvinistic preachers whose sermons are published preached to sinners, many of whom responded. Preaching universal love & redemption is another Gospel. Sinners are living under condemnation. What follows John 3:16 ? John 3:17-21