So Where Was Baptism For Salvation In The Ot?

[Invicta]

Sounds like they need to start a new church! ;-)

 

Yes, I cannot understand why they stay in the CoE.  

[AVBibleBeliever]

What is the meaning of "one body" in Ephesians 4:4 and 1 Cor. 12:13?  Is the "one baptism in Ephesians 4:5 water baptism?  What about the baptism in 1 Cor. 12:13?

 

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

John the Baptist prophesied the "baptism of the Holy Ghost" and the "baptism with fire" (judgment) by Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 3:11:

 

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

Jesus prophesied the "baptism of the Holy Ghost" in Acts 1:5:

 

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

One my comment about not OBserving means in a manner that reflects you are OBserving using the 6 w's and the H.

 

two, the Body is only mentioned by Paul it was not a teaching of Christ or the 11 or any member of the church in the wilderness/church of the first born.

 

Baptism of the Holy Ghost in Matthew was with the signs that they received in Acts 2.  that baptism stopped once Paul brought in the Gospel of the Grace of God. glad to see you knew that fire was baptism of judgement.  Never happened yet will take place in the tribulation.

 

Again Paul is the only one to teach about the Body of Christ and today there is only one baptism that which puts you into the Body of Christ.

 

Acts 1:5 was for the church in the wilderness/fist born Israel and that baptism ended when Paul brought in the Gospel of the Grace of God.

[AVBibleBeliever]

If you don't rightly divide the scriptures then you will blend them all and their doctrines and to whom they apply.

 

I can't force you to learn this or accept this but it is a truth. 

 

The divisions of Gen-Acts 7, Acts 12-Philemon, Hebrews through Rev 19, Rev 19-Rev21 are four simple divisions of scripture and they are to different people at different times.  that does not mean we can t use them or apply  them it just means doctrinally there is application that is not for us.

 

ALL scripture is for the Body of Christ but not not all of it applies to the body of Christ.

[Invicta]

If you don't rightly divide the scriptures then you will blend them all and their doctrines and to whom they apply.

 

I can't force you to learn this or accept this but it is a truth. 

 

The divisions of Gen-Acts 7, Acts 12-Philemon, Hebrews through Rev 19, Rev 19-Rev21 are four simple divisions of scripture and they are to different people at different times.  that does not mean we can t use them or apply  them it just means doctrinally there is application that is not for us.

 

ALL scripture is for the Body of Christ but not not all of it applies to the body of Christ.

 

Strange teaching.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Salyan,

 

You might want to add this passage to your already excellent explanation:

 

Heb 11

24  By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 

25  Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 

26  Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 

 

Note that it was Faith that caused Moses to acts in this way - just like it is Faith that makes us "do good works".

And note also what that faith was in - In CHRIST - not in God generally, but in Christ specifically - in the promised Messiah.

 

Moses had faith in Christ, and it caused him to serve God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK thanks for clearing that up (and for not assuming I was being stupid or picky about it).

I did not say that Faith was not active in any age, economy or dispensation.  I said that Faith, Works and God's Grace worked in different ways at different times.  They were all active at all times, just in different manners of application.

 

I don't remember anywhere in Exodus through Duet that Moses had faith in the finished work of Christ/Messiah to Moses he was called a prophet like unto himself. Moses did not know anything other than God would raise up a prophet like him to lead Israel.  While Moses knew that he did not know who Jesus Christ was until after his death when he met him face to face when Jesus went into hell and preached unto the prisoners. 

 

Moses's faith was in the word/promise of God generally and in God specifically.

[DaveW]

I did not say that Faith was not active in any age, economy or dispensation.  I said that Faith, Works and God's Grace worked in different ways at different times.  They were all active at all times, just in different manners of application.

 

I don't remember anywhere in Exodus through Duet that Moses had faith in the finished work of Christ/Messiah to Moses he was called a prophet like unto himself. Moses did not know anything other than God would raise up a prophet like him to lead Israel.  While Moses knew that he did not know who Jesus Christ was until after his death when he met him face to face when Jesus went into hell and preached unto the prisoners. 

 

Moses's faith was in the word/promise of God generally and in God specifically.

 

If you don't mind I will trust Paul's opinions over yours - HE said Moses had faith in Christ.

 

And the Body of Christ is the church.

Col_1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 

 

If you don't rightly divide the scriptures then you will blend them all and their doctrines and to whom they apply.

 

I can't force you to learn this or accept this but it is a truth. 

 

The divisions of Gen-Acts 7, Acts 12-Philemon, Hebrews through Rev 19, Rev 19-Rev21 are four simple divisions of scripture and they are to different people at different times.  that does not mean we can t use them or apply  them it just means doctrinally there is application that is not for us.

 

ALL scripture is for the Body of Christ but not not all of it applies to the body of Christ.

 

 

And if you do a quick study of "church" or even look at the short explanation I recently posted about the church - you will see that the church is only specifically local, never universal.

 

The majority of references to the body in relation to a group of believers is clearly talking about the local church - and as the with the church there are some which are vague, but NONE that speak of the body specifically as all believers to the exclusion of the local church.

 

And you still use the "rightly dividing" phrase amiss.

[swathdiver]

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; - Titus 3:10

[prophet1]

Heb 12:22-26
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth:but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

Now, ye are come, in the writer's day, to the Heavenly assembly.

Eph 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Eph 1:20
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Eph 2:6
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Verb tenses are important.


Anishinaabe

[candlelight]

swath said:
 

 

"I know you know more about the Popery than me, I think that part was meant for someone else.  You can click a "Like This" again to unlike it; unless there's a time period to do so?"

__________________________________

LOL.  Yeah, just a little bit.    I know what you are saying.  I should have adjusted my first post to read, "that as a former RC, this is never taught to the people."  There is so much brainwashing going on, that the precious RC's can't see the truth.  And, the RC's that are not devout are too afraid to leave the RCC for fear of persecution from family and friends, or they are in the words of one of my first cousins, "in limbo" and are closed off to what scripture says.  Also, many are agnostic or atheist.  *sigh*

You got a free "like", brother.  :-)

  Can someone explain, via PM how to copy just one section of a post?  I know how to copy if someone is posting to me, however, I need a little help with how to post when multiple replies are made.  Thanks in advance:)  

 

[282Mikado]

First I never implied that Baptism was for Salvation in the OT.

 

I stated that it was a requirement under the Gospel of the Kingdom, which was never preached in the OT, it was only preached by John the Bapt, Jesus, and the 12 & the 70(72) disciples in the NT and it was only preached to Israel.

.

 

I responded to this in post >#33 to which you never responded. I asked for you to respond again in #70, but still no answer.Instead you come out with the following post:

 

If you don't rightly divide the scriptures then you will blend them all and their doctrines and to whom they apply.

 

I can't force you to learn this or accept this but it is a truth. 

 

Your statement: "If you don't rightly divide the scriptures then you will blend them all and their doctrines and to whom they apply" is indeed true, but I suspect it may be you that is not "rightly dividing" and doing the "blending ... doctrines".

 

But hey,  I can't force you to learn this or accept this. I can't even get you to reply to my post.

[AVBibleBeliever]

I guess I was incorrect as Moses would have known Christ before Christ going to hell for he stood with him on the mount.

 

Moses may have only known his as the Lord of Host prior to his earthly visit.

 

So at the time of the promise historically Moses knew nothing more than the God.

 

DAVEW

 

If you say he knew Christ as Jesus then you make the body that came through Mary an eternal body he possessed in time past prior to his earthly birth there is a bigger prOBlem than my saying he did not know.  for you would be saying Christ possessed the body of Jesus before his birth.

 

Now I do realize the Author of Hebrews Says, Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
 28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
 29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 

If you are implying that before the Exodus that Moses knew Christ the Messiah you are in error.  The Author is showing a comparative not proving he knew Jesus Christ at Exodus 2 that is not true.  It was the reproach that he knew not Christ himself.

 

If I am wrong please provide a scripture that says, " HE said Moses had faith in Christ"  Hebrews does not say that.  Hebrews is talking about faith but not faith in Christ but the reproach of Christ.  That reproach was about serving God above oneself or the World.

[AVBibleBeliever]

I responded to this in post >#33 to which you never responded. I asked for you to respond again in #70, but still no answer.Instead you come out with the following post:

 

 

Your statement: "If you don't rightly divide the scriptures then you will blend them all and their doctrines and to whom they apply" is indeed true, but I suspect it may be you that is not "rightly dividing" and doing the "blending ... doctrines".

 

But hey,  I can't force you to learn this or accept this. I can't even get you to reply to my post.

what!!?  No I am not blending anything.

[282Mikado]

what!!?  No I am not blending anything.

 

And yet you still refuse to answer my scripturally correct post #33 which responds to your insistence that Baptism was a requirement under the Gospel of the Kingdom, preached by John the Bapt, Jesus, and the 12 & the 70(72) disciples in the NT.

 

Okay, maybe you don't blend. Maybe you just ignore the scripture that doesn't line up with what you want to believe.

[AVBibleBeliever]

And yet you still refuse to answer my scripturally correct post #33 which responds to your insistence that Baptism was a requirement under the Gospel of the Kingdom, preached by John the Bapt, Jesus, and the 12 & the 70(72) disciples in the NT.

 

Okay, maybe you don't blend. Maybe you just ignore the scripture that doesn't line up with what you want to believe.

why don't you show where it was not a requirement.

 

I show what John and Jesus taught and baptism was part of the gospel of the Kingdom.  Go back and read those scriptures again.

 

But it is clear what was passed on to Peter and he clearly stated prior to the gospel of the Grace of God,  The asked "what shall we do?"  WORKS and peter answered Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.  it was required for those who believe the gospel of the Kingdom and it is the same on Peter is preaching here.

[282Mikado]

why don't you show where it was not a requirement.

 

It was not given as a requirement in Matthew 10, John 4, John 11 or for the thief on the cross as I showed and referenced multiple times.