What Do You Think The "kingdom Of God" Is?

[Covenanter]

So someone can be plucked out of the kingdom of God (the one we are born again into) and cast into hell?

 

Why do people ignore these verses? 

 

Matthew 13:24,29,30

 

[24] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

Matthew 13:47-50

 

[47] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
[48] Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
[49] So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
[50] And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

And please don't tell me this took place at 70 AD when it says "at the end of the world".

Firstly, if you interpret the word of God in a way that is contrary to the word of God, your interpretation is WRONG! True believers, born again citizens of the Kingdom of heaven/God, CANNOT be lost.

 

You need to read the whole chapter, & keep in mind what Jesus has been consistently teaching.

 

e.g. Mat. 4:¹⁷ From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

Mark 1:¹⁴ Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, ¹⁵ and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

 

We should not immediately give our  own opinion about the Kingdom of God & how it differs from the Kingdom of heaven. We should read & seek to understand Jesus' own teaching about the gospel of the kingdom of God which Jesus preached. Matthew 13 spells out that teaching in great detail. 

 

Note: ¹⁸ Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. ¹⁹ When any one heareth the word of the kingdom.... Jesus is teaching about the Gospel of the Kingdom - the word by which we hear the good news of salvation. The Gospel of the Kingdom calls out to sinners, calls them to repentance, & gathers them - us - into his Kingdom. It refers to the present Gospel age - at hand, when John, Jesus & the disciples preached during Jesus' lifetime, & present now in the hearts & lives of believers.

1 Peter 1:²⁴ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: ²⁵ but the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.   

 

Now, go back & read Mat. 13, & see if your understanding comes into line with the teaching of Scripture.

[Covenanter]

I am honored to be mentioned among true seekers of the truth. I noticed, your name is not listed.

If you would read their posts ,as I assume you did not, you would not have called us what you did. And you read way too much into what was said.

Yes, "Dr" Ach specialises in deliberate misunderstanding of anyone he disagrees with, & refuting his own misunderstandings.

[Covenanter]

Sorry, but perhaps I should have used another word instead of "immediately".  Perhaps soon would have been better suited.  English has it's limitations.  I do not quickly throw around the words "heretic" and "rebuke" as I consider it ungodly to do so against other Christians.   

I know from whence that particular "spirit" comes.

 

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.  Acts 1:7

 

The "Kingdom" has never been established on the earth.

We should always be prepared to accept Scriptural rebukes. Not "railing accusations."

 

Now, Jesus' reply to the disciples indicates they they had not understood his teaching about the Kingdom. ....... he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.  Had he missed out the expected teaching about restoring the kingdom to Israel? Apparently - otherwise they need not have asked. When the Holy Spirit came on them there was no teaching about restoring the kingdom to Israel. Unless, of course, I've missed something in my NT reading.

 

[Invicta]

The kingdom WOULD begin in the lifetime of the generation Jesus addressed,

 

Matt 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

When Jesus came to Jerusalem as king, he was accepted as such  -- by the disciples.  These were those who formed his kingdom.

 

37  And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;

38  Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

39  And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.

40  And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

 

[beameup]

 When the Holy Spirit came on them there was no teaching about restoring the kingdom to Israel. Unless, of course, I've missed something in my NT reading.

 

I guess you missed Acts 3:19-21

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing

shall come from the presence of the Lord;  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken

by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Clearly, the message of a restoration/refreshing of the earth to "Eden-like" conditions is found throughout the

Old Testament and was central to the message of "The Twelve" to Israel.

I haven't seen any lions lying down with sheep lately...

 

PS: Human beings will survive the Great Tribulation and enter the Kingdom (ie: "Millennium").  That's where the

"meek and humble" (sheep) will be allowed to repopulate the earth, and the evil-at-heart (goats) will be cast out. 

[candlelight]

Yes, "Dr" Ach specialises in deliberate misunderstanding of anyone he disagrees with, & refuting his own misunderstandings.

Could it be b/c he was saved out of Judaism, and all you do is preach false doctrine on Preterism?  FYI, God IS NOT done with the Jews.

[Genevanpreacher]

  It should be said, that God is not done with the 'house of Israel'. Jews only comprised the tribes of Judah and some of the other two tribes that went with them during the seperation of Israel into the Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom. That is when they were termed 'Jews'. Today people get mixed up and confuse the two. So when, today, someone refers to themselves as 'a Jew' I want to ask, which tribe, because most Christians refer to any of the people of Israel as Jews, when it comes to the biblical people. They are not. They are Israelites. 

  Judaism is not a 'race' but a false religion. People tend to get that confused also. So to say Judaism is not the true religion that the people of God taught in the old testament, is not a racist statement. But a statement on how false that religion is.

  Whether one is a Jew or in Judaism makes no difference on how the scriptures teach. We are all one and the same. Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ, and there is no special people except the believers in Jesus Christ. We all become children of Abraham by faith, as the scriptures say. Abraham's child, by promise, was Isaac, who had JacOB, who was called Israel. 

  We became the chosen, when we heard God's call for repentence and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. So maybe God is done with the Jews, because we are now all one. And God is no respecter of persons. 

 

Hope that helps, not necessarily on subject, but was for information.

 

Preterism? Don't really know a whole lot about it. Some I heard I agree with, some I don't. I do not identify myself with doctrines I do not know, but if someone is taking a stand on a particular subject and I do not know 'all' about them, so what. A right stand is a right stand. 

 

  If Dr. Ach would say something I agree with I will stand with him also. Even tho I don't agree with everything he pushes.

[candlelight]

I agree with you Genevanpreacher.  However, Covenanter has a prOBlem with the Jews.  It is evident in his posts.  A moderator defended him by bringing up something he said about Jews coming to know Jesus Christ as Personal Saviour, by grace.  It is the only rational thing he has said on OB regarding the Jews.  It was a huge stretch, though.  He has a strong dislike for them, and all Jews (by birth) are offended by his comments about them.  When approaching a Jew, with regards to salvation, it is difficult.  However, I know a few who have come to the saving knowledge of Christ.  I thought the unsaved had prOBlems with the Jews.  I didn't know that a Christian could have such issues with them, though.  I have been doing a little study on Calvinism.  I don't like what I am seeing.  Please look up Preterism, and let me know what you have discovered, please.  It is reminding me too much of my RC upbringing.  And, most Christians know how the Vatican uses and abuses the Jewish people.  The pope is still trying to get his paws on Jerusalem.  The Vatican believes they are they are God's chosen people.  It is sickening.  Calvinism is running a close second to the RCC in their theology on this.  It pains me to see this garbage on a Christian site.  

[HappyChristian]

Candlelight, stop this thing you have against Covenantor. And the mods. You are being contentious, my friend. And it's not pretty.

[candlelight]

Candlelight, stop this thing you have against Covenantor. And the mods. You are being contentious, my friend. And it's not pretty.

I do have a prOBlem with Covenanter, HC.  I am not trying to hide it.  His Preterism views are not Biblical.  I will call a spade a spade.  And, I am a Jew by birth.  My mom and I did an exhaustive search on  the genealogy on her mom's side of the family.  She was Jew by birth and so are me and my siblings.  The Book of Hebrews led her to Christ.  And, it is my favorite book as well.  My son is also a Jew for that matter, and so are my sister's children.  My prOBlem is that the moderators let false doctrine, such a Preterism, go unnoticed on OB.  I had my fill of all that hatred in the RCC.  I don't like Covenanter's comments on Jews.  He may not appear anti-semitic, by one of his posts, but he certainly is.  He speaks loud and clear to most of us on OB. 

[HappyChristian]

And I will call a spade a spade. You complain about the contention on this site and yet you add to it. Stop. That is not a request.

[candlelight]

And I will call a spade a spade. You complain about the contention on this site and yet you add to it. Stop. That is not a request.

I will do what I said in my last post.  I will take a break from OB, LuAnne.  It is stressing me out too much.

[HappyChristian]

Hope you don't have to take too long a break, but I do understand. G'night now. See you on FB.

[candlelight]

Hope you don't have to take too long a break, but I do understand. G'night now. See you on FB.

 

Thanks, sister.  Yeah, it is time to take a break.  Goodnight.  Sweet dreams.  I will see you on Facebook.

[Covenanter]

I guess you missed Acts 3:19-21

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing

shall come from the presence of the Lord;  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken

by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Clearly, the message of a restoration/refreshing of the earth to "Eden-like" conditions is found throughout the

Old Testament and was central to the message of "The Twelve" to Israel.

I haven't seen any lions lying down with sheep lately...

 

PS: Human beings will survive the Great Tribulation and enter the Kingdom (ie: "Millennium").  That's where the

"meek and humble" (sheep) will be allowed to repopulate the earth, and the evil-at-heart (goats) will be cast out. 

Now what did the Holy Spirit mean by that? The new believers were enjoying times of refreshing by the Holy Spirit, as prophesied by Joel. The ultimate restitution of the heaven & earth to Edenic Paradise would come about when Jesus returned. One ravenous lion - Saul - would soon lie with the sheep. Even Leonine Pharisees & priests became believers. Whether that is what is prophesied is unclear, but what is clear is the NH&NE when all will be perfect peace.

 

There is no explicit message that Jesus would return immediately the Jewish leaders repented & turned to Christ. Jesus' Olivet prophecy predicts that that wasn't going to happen.

 

One could suggest that the times of restitution of all things would be when worship in spirit & truth wherever believers worship in the name of Jesus, anywhere on earth, rather than centred on the temple. (John 4) The removal of the redundant temple made that unambiguously clear.

 

Reading on in Acts 3, we see the warning given by Moses in Deut. 18 restated. Acts records many thousands of Jewish believers. That did not reverse the judgement.