In Defense Of Alcohol, God's Blessing To Man

[Jeffrey]

Really? A handful out of hundreds? 

Sir, the word of God says "wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging...." You and I can say whatever we want, and interpret the Word of God any way we want to justify our sin but that doesn't change it.

I can tell sexual abuse hasnt hit too close to home for you and apparently a handful is enough for you to stomach

[heartstrings]

Never said I could 'stomach' it. 

[Jeffrey]

I don't have long to do an in-depth search tonight, but for a quick example consider a quote from Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 AD) in Dialogue with Trypho:

 

"Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto those that are mighty among you, who drink wine, who are men of strength, who mingle strong drink! who justify the wicked for a reward, and take away justice from the righteous!"

He is quoting Is 5;21-23, not his own words

 

Also, I'm not sure Martin Luther is the best one to follow as an example regarding questionable or debatable behaviors:

 

"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly." - Martin Luther

Did you consider any of the facts I posted that you'd like to discuss the interpretation of? If you can make a good argument for a better meaning I'm all too happy to change my mind on it.

yes i did, here is the full quote;

"If you are a preacher of Grace, then preach a true, not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly. For he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here we have to sin. This life in not the dwelling place of righteousness but, as Peter says [2 Pet 3:13], we look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. . . . Pray boldly-you too are a mighty sinner. (LW 48, 281-82)

[AVBibleBeliever]

Is 55:1Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters,

and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat;
yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.  For Israel not Christians

 

Psalm 104:14 He causeth the grass to grostw for the cattle,

and herb for the service of man:
that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
15 

                15 and wine that maketh glad the heart of man,
and oil to make his face to shine,

and bread which strengtheneth man’s heart. While these facts may be true using poetry to produce a doctrine is weak at best

 

Judges 9:13 And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? Using an allegory to produce a doctrine is also weak

[Jeffrey]

 

 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Having eyes to see, ye see not; and ears to hear, ye hear not.

[AVBibleBeliever]

 

 

 

[Jeffrey]

 

 

 

No you are twisting Scripture to fit a teaching of man, keep trying

[Jeffrey]

Having eyes to see, ye see not; and ears to hear, ye hear not.

Ironic isn't it?

[AVBibleBeliever]

No you are twisting Scripture to fit a teaching of man, keep trying

Isa 55:1 is written to Israel not to the Christian today.  You failed to rightly divide scripture.

John 2 has nothing to do with a blessing to the Body of Christ.  If the blessing was not made to the body of Christ it cannot be applied to the body of Christ.  You err not knowing the scriptures.

Judges 19:13 are concerning Abimelech and it is an allegory as you know well the vine does not literally speak.  Again you fail to rightly divide and properly identify context using the verse out of context is a pretext and is an error.

[Jeffrey]

Isa 55:1 is written to Israel not to the Christian today.  You failed to rightly divide scripture.

If the blessing was not made to the body of Christ it cannot be applied to the body of Christ.  You err not knowing the scriptures.

Judges 19:13 are concerning Abimelech and it is an allegory as you know well the vine does not literally speak.  Again you fail to rightly divide and properly identify context using the verse out of context is a pretext and is an error.

I know it's an allegory, you fail to realize that God would not use something that was sinful to describe anything to do with His goodness, grace or mercy, etc. By using wine in this text, He shows it is a blessing, so, it must be good!

And Christ making wine at the wedding feast, Paul mentions of it  Corinthians, Timothy, Collossians and Ephesians shows it's widespread use in the world. Nowhere in the NT is there a condemnation for it's use, abuse? absolutely! Use? No!

[GraceSaved]

I know it's an allegory, you fail to realize that God would not use something that was sinful to describe anything to do with His goodness, grace or mercy, etc. By using wine in this text, He shows it is a blessing, so, it must be good!

And Christ making wine at the wedding feast, Paul mentions of it  Corinthians, Timothy, Collossians and Ephesians shows it's widespread use in the world. Nowhere in the NT is there a condemnation for it's use, abuse? absolutely! Use? No!

Also, people use wine in cooking.  That would be a "use", not an "abuse."

[AVBibleBeliever]

So are you as a Christian glorifying God when you are drinking Alcoholic Beverages?

[Jeffrey]

Also, people use wine in cooking.  That would be a "use", not an "abuse."

if the meal was bad, then it would be abuse, wouldn't it?

[GraceSaved]

So are you as a Christian glorifying God when you are drinking Alcoholic Beverages?

God should be glorified in everything we do, even if someone's drinking coffee.