Judge Not!

[swathdiver]

Lately I seem to see a strain of liberal "judge not" creeping in across our local churches.  David W. Cloud posted about it yesterday but I missed it here or it didn't post.  

 

As I understand the Scriptures, we are to judge, but according to God's Word.  How else are we to protect ourselves, our spouses, children and members of our local churches from evil if we do not judge according to Scripture?

 

Some say it's only through prayer or the pastor.  Who's to correct the pastor when he is in error then?  

 

If we are not to judge, then what the Bereans did in Acts 17:11 was wrong.  As was Paul withstanding Peter!

 

So what do you folks in Christ say about this?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Lately I seem to see a strain of liberal "judge not" creeping in across our local churches.  David W. Cloud posted about it yesterday but I missed it here or it didn't post.  

 

As I understand the Scriptures, we are to judge, but according to God's Word.  How else are we to protect ourselves, our spouses, children and members of our local churches from evil if we do not judge according to Scripture?

 

Some say it's only through prayer or the pastor.  Who's to correct the pastor when he is in error then?  

 

If we are not to judge, then what the Bereans did in Acts 17:11 was wrong.  As was Paul withstanding Peter!

 

So what do you folks in Christ say about this?

Especially when it comes to sodomites. You always hear the "judge not" verse pulled out when their lifestyle is being discussed.

[Bro K]

Mt 7:1  "Judge not, that ye be not judged": This is the verse that is usually referred to when most people refer to judging one another.

 

Since this text is part of the Sermon on the Mount; it was  given to the Jews. If we take the entire text of vs 1 thru 6; we see that this is between two brothers (Jews); since the Gentiles are mentioned; ie, dogs and swine.

 

As long as we are in this fleshly body; there will be judging of one another. The problem(s) arises when we want to exercise our condemnation, instead of letting God take care of his children.

 

This area of "judging one another" has probably created more division in our local churches than anything else, since it is usually caused by PRIDE.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Mt 7:1  "Judge not, that ye be not judged": This is the verse that is usually referred to when most people refer to judging one another.

 

Since this text is part of the Sermon on the Mount; it was  given to the Jews. If we take the entire text of vs 1 thru 6; we see that this is between two brothers (Jews); since the Gentiles are mentioned; ie, dogs and swine.

 

As long as we are in this fleshly body; there will be judging of one another. The problem(s) arises when we want to exercise our condemnation, instead of letting God take care of his children.

 

This area of "judging one another" has probably created more division in our local churches than anything else, since it is usually caused by PRIDE.

[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

The common mistake is to read only verse one then stopping there. If you do that you are not getting the full message the Lord is passing on. It's not that we are not to judge (or condemn in your words) but we are not to judge if we have no intention of repenting of our own sins, i.e. hypocritical judgment. You'll notice that after we get the beam out of our eyes we are to cast out the mote from our brother's, which would require judgement to carry out. The implication too is that your brother wants the mote cast out of his eye and you are willing to help. If you are ready to condemn a sin make sure your are willing to help someone overcome it.

 

The problem I'm seeing among everyone these days, including Christians, is that we are not even allowed to say anything against perverse lifestyles of those who don't want to repent, period. 

[Bro K]

Who's to correct the pastor when he is in error then?  

 

Anyone; as long as they can take the Word of God to show the error and do it with love, compassion and humility.

 

I  understand that one could say it should be done by someone within the local assembly; I totally agree with this. However, there may be occasions which someone else can be in  a better position to provide help.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Who's to correct the pastor when he is in error then?  
 
Anyone; as long as they can take the Word of God to show the error and do it with love, compassion and humility.
 
I  understand that one could say it should be done by someone within the local assembly; I totally agree with this. However, there may be occasions which someone else can be in  a better position to provide help.

a good example of outside correction can be seen in Paul's first epistle to the Church at Corinth

[candlelight]

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

 

Amen!  That is one scripture, SFIC.

 

 

[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

The common mistake is to read only verse one then stopping there. If you do that you are not getting the full message the Lord is passing on. It's not that we are not to judge (or condemn in your words) but we are not to judge if we have no intention of repenting of our own sins, i.e. hypocritical judgment. You'll notice that after we get the beam out of our eyes we are to cast out the mote from our brother's, which would require judgement to carry out. The implication too is that your brother wants the mote cast out of his eye and you are willing to help. If you are ready to condemn a sin make sure your are willing to help someone overcome it.

 

The problem I'm seeing among everyone these days, including Christians, is that we are not even allowed to say anything against perverse lifestyles of those who don't want to repent, period. 

 

Amen!  Context is very critical when reading and studying God's word.  We can get caught up with one scripture, and not get the meaning b/c we have avoided the other scriptures around that verse.  Didn't our English/Grammar teachers teach us all about context when we were in gradeschool?  That same principle applies to God's word.

 

 

Who's to correct the pastor when he is in error then?  

 

Anyone; as long as they can take the Word of God to show the error and do it with love, compassion and humility.

 

I  understand that one could say it should be done by someone within the local assembly; I totally agree with this. However, there may be occasions which someone else can be in  a better position to provide help.

 

Amen!  Yes, anyone.  Some Christians believe one is not to correct the pastor.  The Autistic gentleman, in my chruch, had no problem with correcting my pastor, though.     When I first attended an IFB church, my Asst. pastor, now my pastor, asked me to correct his grammar b/c he talks "Hillbilly."  I never did, and it never bothered me.  However, if something didn't sound Biblical to me, I would ask the pastor if we could talk when he got a chance.  That was when I asked my questions.  Many times, it wasn't him who was in error, I didn't understand what the word of God was saying.  My pastors have always said, "Don't trust what I say, trust what the word of God says."

[Standing Firm In Christ]

My pastors have always said, "Don't trust what I say, trust what the word of God says."

our pastor said that too. Of course, he didn't really mean it though. As soon as we taught against his error, he called for a secret meeting and voted us out of the assembly.

[DaveW]

Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

[candlelight]

B

our pastor said that too. Of course, he didn't really mean it though. As soon as we taught against his error, he called for a secret meeting and voted us out of the assembly.

 

Are you joking, SFIC?  Wait.  I know you're not.  Sorry to hear that.  I have never heard of a person in my IFB church being "voted out of the assembly."  In fact, I know of no one, in my area, or any IFB church that this has happened to.  Believe me, I would have heard about it.  You know how IFB talk gets around.  My church put a man on church discipline once b/c he was a drunk and a druggie refusing to get help. He started harrassing the church members, especially his niece.  However, he went to another IFB church which has a program called "Reformer's Unanymous" for people with addictions like his.  His is sober and clean, to this day, and this happened about 8 years ago.

[John81]

It's also important that we keep the following in mind as well (Scripture below). Along with this, it's helpful to remember there is a difference between judging someone and simply pointing out what Scripture says about a matter. It's not judging a pastor to look into the Word to make sure what he's preaching is in accord with the Word. That's something Scripture calls us to, and good pastors want us to do, as a means of accountability and growth in studying the Word.

 

It's also not judging someone in clear, open sin, to preach what the Word says about that sin, or to speak with them about it. If someone is living an open life as a homosexual, adulterer, blasphemer, or another clear sin, we don't have to judge them for Scripture already clearly says such is sin.

 

Where we often get into trouble is in judging folks for things Scripture doesn't give us a clear thou shalt or thou shalt not. There are things and areas where the Lord gives us liberty and depending upon our maturity level, what the Spirit is working on in our lives and other factors, we may not always agree, but we shouldn't judge others based upon these matters as they are between each of us and the Lord and the Lord will deal with us directly if need be. An example of this would be whether or not to celebrate Christmas, and even how to celebrate if one does.

 

In all we do, we need to keep our focus upon Christ and make sure we are truly following His leading and not our own. As we go about our days it's helpful to keep in mind the great importance of doing all things in true Christlike love. Love God with all our being and love all others as ourselves. Our every thought, word (including online) and action should be governed clearly in love. All too often we fail to make sure love flows through what we say or do and this often leads to harm or loss. May the fruit of the Spirit flow through us so that others may take note.

 

Romans 14:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

⁴ Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

⁵ One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

⁶ He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

[candlelight]

Well said, John.  The below scripture from Romans was what I was looking for when talking about conviction with a believer.

 

Romans 14:5
⁵ One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

[HappyChristian]

The "don't judge me" thinking has so pervaded our culture that even Christians think that if someone points out biblical principle that someone is judging.  Well, I would suppose that would be the case. But if it's biblical principle - even without the "thou shalt not" - it's righteous judgment.  There are too many times that Christians continue in their pet sins because God's Word doesn't say a definite no-no to it and they scorn biblical principle that actually teaches such would be wrong.

 

We have to be uber-careful that we don't become as the children of Israel did when scripture says every man did what was right in their own mind.  While God gives liberty, the Bible also warns against us taking license to sin - and using scripture to support that sin. 

 

I can't count on my fingers the number of Christians who have said that because the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not smoke" it's okay to smoke.  And the list could go on.

 

Scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness.  All scripture, not just the thou shalt nots.  That would include principle and precept.

 

The idea that "don't judge me" gives, though, is the idea that someone who uses scripture to point something out is doing it in condemnation.  That is sadly too often the case, but is not always.  The person who is pointing out scripture has to remember that the spirit in which it is done is vital.  God says that we are to do it in a spirit of meekness, not an "I'm better than you" attitude.  But the person to whom the scripture is shown needs to be careful as well - to jump to the conclusion that someone is being condemnatory for pointing out scripture is, in fact, a type of unbiblical judging as well (unless, of course, the condemnatory attitude is quite clear).

 

I remember one pastor we had years and years ago (in another church) who stood up and was talking about a conference he was at. He was talking about how he got up and rebuked all the pastors there.  Then he said he could do that because he's a pastor, but we couldn't because we can't rebuke God's man.  Funny, but there was no scripture used...Although we did have a pastor, before that, who used the "don't touch God's anointed" bit.  Totally putting something there that scripture definitely doesn't teach, whether it be by thou shalt not or by principle!

[candlelight]

The "don't judge me" thinking has so pervaded our culture that even Christians think that if someone points out biblical principle that someone is judging.  Well, I would suppose that would be the case. But if it's biblical principle - even without the "thou shalt not" - it's righteous judgment.  There are too many times that Christians continue in their pet sins because God's Word doesn't say a definite no-no to it and they scorn biblical principle that actually teaches such would be wrong.

 

We have to be uber-careful that we don't become as the children of Israel did when scripture says every man did what was right in their own mind.  While God gives liberty, the Bible also warns against us taking license to sin - and using scripture to support that sin. 

 

I can't count on my fingers the number of Christians who have said that because the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not smoke" it's okay to smoke.  And the list could go on.

 

Scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness.  All scripture, not just the thou shalt nots.  That would include principle and precept.

 

The idea that "don't judge me" gives, though, is the idea that someone who uses scripture to point something out is doing it in condemnation.  That is sadly too often the case, but is not always.  The person who is pointing out scripture has to remember that the spirit in which it is done is vital.  God says that we are to do it in a spirit of meekness, not an "I'm better than you" attitude.  But the person to whom the scripture is shown needs to be careful as well - to jump to the conclusion that someone is being condemnatory for pointing out scripture is, in fact, a type of unbiblical judging as well (unless, of course, the condemnatory attitude is quite clear).

 

I remember one pastor we had years and years ago (in another church) who stood up and was talking about a conference he was at. He was talking about how he got up and rebuked all the pastors there.  Then he said he could do that because he's a pastor, but we couldn't because we can't rebuke God's man.  Funny, but there was no scripture used...Although we did have a pastor, before that, who used the "don't touch God's anointed" bit.  Totally putting something there that scripture definitely doesn't teach, whether it be by thou shalt not or by principle!

Coming from a Roman Catholic background with Jewish roots, I will say that Jewish and Catholic guilt runs through my DNA, as it does with all people who come from these religions.  I believe that guilt comes from Satan, and I know that conviction comes from the Lord Jesus Christ.  Why am I saying this?  I am harder on myself, about everything, than anyone else is with me.  Not only is this in my DNA, it was also in my upbringing.  My mom told her children, as her mom told her kids and so on... "Never to disgrace the family."  I was also told to "Go for the gold" and strive to be better my entire life.  Goal setting was a must!  Being an IFB is a lot easier than where I came from.  I don't understand the complaints I hear from people who were/are raised in the IFB faith.  Christ convicts me of everything.  That is if the guilt doesn't do it first.    My pastor has said that his hardest working Christians are those that come from a "works based" religion.  The former Amish are wonderful.  He said it is "The Home Grown" that he has trouble with.  You don't have to tell me twice, what I already know to be a sin.  God and guilt speak this loud and clear to me, as He does others who come from "work's based" religions.  I also don't want anyone to think I am bragging b/c I am not.  If you are unaware of what I am talking about... please sit in a Roman Catholic church for a week, and a shul (synagogue) for a week, as well.  You will be running back to the IFB in no time, at all.