Alcohol: A Biblical Case For Abstinance

[John81]

Ok John, now what is ASongOfDegrees' context for posting this?

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the context of the verses. I was thinking the posting was in regards with that and how it applies here.

 

While I can't personally vouch for it, I've heard some pastors say that, "All things are lawful unto me" is a saying that was in popular use in Corinth, and a saying some of the Christians had accepted. In that case, it's clear Paul wasn't trying to say that all things are acceptable, but rather using that saying and then pointing out to folks that even if one accepted that saying as including certain things the Corinthian Christians were dealing with, then they would still need to deal with the questions as to whether a particular thing was beneficial or not, served to honour Christ or tarnish Him, makes our witness for Christ good or bad.

 

Anyway, I was only meaning to convey the context of the verses, certainly not trying to speak for "Song", so I'll sit back down and wait for "Song" to answer you.

[TheSword]

Just refreshing the topic in hopes of hearing the Biblical case for the opposing viewpoint...

[swathdiver]

 

1 Corinthians 10:31

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

 

Whether you call drinking a sin or not, how do you drink that small glass of wine to the glory of God?  

 

 

Rob, I ask this sincerely, how do you see this verse as drinking alcohol?

[robmac68]

Rob, I ask this sincerely, how do you see this verse as drinking alcohol?

I don't see the word "drink" in this verse as alcohol or coffee or anything specific...I use this verse in relation to anything we do.  As Christians, we are to focus on the glory of God.  So lets apply the verse to drinking alcohol.  What does a beer do for the glory of God?  Obviously with the other thread, we have seen the subject of beer cause contention between brothers and sisters.  This isn't to the glory of God.  Beer or wine causes alot of strife between Christians, therefore using this verse, we should abstain and stay away from alcohol.

[swathdiver]

Ok, that's one reason to stay away from booze but do you agree that the Scriptures teach prohibition or as the OP suggests, abstinence?  I think these are far more important on how we view and act towards booze.

[robmac68]

Ok, that's one reason to stay away from booze but do you agree that the Scriptures teach prohibition or as the OP suggests, abstinence?  I think these are far more important on how we view and act towards booze.

How do I view and act towards booze?  In all seriousness, I abstain from drinking any alcoholic beverage.  I prohibit it from being in my house. 

[TheSword]

I think what swathdiver is asking is whether you agree with the reasoning for abstinance laid out in the OP.

[robmac68]

I think what swathdiver is asking is whether you agree with the reasoning for abstinance laid out in the OP.

Abstinance and prohibition are 2 different views.  I think he was wanting me to comment on which one I agree with.  As far as the OP, it states reasoning for abstinance.  You did a nice job with the outline to open this OP and I agree with it. 

[John81]

How do I view and act towards booze?  In all seriousness, I abstain from drinking any alcoholic beverage.  I prohibit it from being in my house. 

Ditto!

[Junebugwv]

But....it's just "part of a larger trend of wanting cultural acceptance." 

 

http://www.religionnews.com/2013/09/19/moody-bible-institute-drops-alcohol-tobacco-ban-employees/

 

 

[swathdiver]

But....it's just "part of a larger trend of wanting cultural acceptance." 

 

http://www.religionnews.com/2013/09/19/moody-bible-institute-drops-alcohol-tobacco-ban-employees/

 

So the prohibition on alcohol consumption is no longer an absolute at Moody.  Not surprising since they do not have the Word of God anymore, just a new and better translation every year.  It's like watching an earthquake and watching the buildings fall down like dominos, block by block.

[John81]

So the prohibition on alcohol consumption is no longer an absolute at Moody.  Not surprising since they do not have the Word of God anymore, just a new and better translation every year.  It's like watching an earthquake and watching the buildings fall down like dominos, block by block.

Moody has long been lurching to the Left. I saw a story a couple years ago about this girl looking to get into the ministry and she was attending a very strict Bible college (her family was of the biblically strict sort) until she was finally accepted at Moody. She was thrilled, her family was thrilled that she could go to such a good, prestigious Bible college. She said she was totally shocked when she got there. She was expecting something similar to the strict Bible college she had been in. When she got to Moody she instantly noticed there were no standards of dress, modesty didn't seem to be an issue. Students were allowed to do almost as they pleased, cigarettes and alcohol were easy to obtain and many students partook. Eventually she found out biblical standards were open to question, most of the students didn't come from the sort of strict background she did.

 

Long story short, she eventually experimented with homosexuality as she got a lesbian roommate. Eventually she decided she was homosexual, God had made her that way, and she decided God wanted her to be an open homosexual and become a "priest" in a denomination that accepted such (I think she went Presby or it may have been Episcopal).

 

No big surprise. When Moody and Sankey were first going around with their meetings, many (often most) of the more conservative churches rejected his modernistic preaching and music, saying it watered down the Word and the Gospel while presenting worldly music. His successor embraced an MV and things continued to where we see them today.

[Steve Schwenke]

The sad thing is that it is not much better at what used to be our leading IFB schools....

[Jeffrey]

In my post here I will start off by saying that i don't expect to win anyone to my side. In my 20 yrs in the IFB I heard countless sermons on positions  against alcohol and the consumption thereof and know the position of most IFB churches.  I have the utmost respect for my brothers and sisters in Christ that it is not my intent to rub liberty or anything in faces to to make angry or instigate any fighting as such.

 This was started when someone went on my profile page and saw the church I belong too and saw that our church has a ministry called Theology Pub. Once a month a local tavern in town lets one of our elders go there and "have the floor" for about an hour to discuss topics of the day,(war, politics etc.) it is the attempt of my elder to turn the conversation to things of the Lord and an opportunity to give the Gospel. I personally never attended one of these due to my work schedule but I have heard they have given many opportunities to share Christ with people, I was questioned about this and asked about my position. It was recommended by ukulelemike to bring the discussion here.

 One more thing, as I mentioned in my "Hello" post, I am not here to fight and argue. I don't mind debating, but lets keep it Biblically based. Do not quote from a book or person living or dead. Because for every book or person you quote, I can find one that backs my position as well.

I will start off by conceding the point that Proverbs has its share of verses in the dangers of alcohol abuse, no question about it.  

 

It started off by debating somebody at work on the issue of alcohol, specifically the wedding that Jesus performed His first miracle. I held the position that it was grape juice. I found in the Strongs that the word used for it was oinos, same word in Eph5, and I wondered why would Jesus make juice but we are told not to get drunk on it.

 Eph 5:18 says 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Why would we even drink grapejuice I thought. I was reading on the internet and people kept talking about Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: That word wine, yayin,is the same word that Noah drank and got drunk on.

 I believe that God allows for the consumption of it. there are many unsaved people,(my family and in-laws for example) who can drink without getting drunk and can control themselves

God said that He would even bless us with it, Psalm 104: 14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;

15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

And the Bible tells us that it cheers God, Judges 9:13 And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?

 

to be continued.... I gotta be up at 4:30, Im sure we will discuss more

[paid4]

I like to look at the examples used in the bible. For an argument against this new "Christian Rock" I look to the use of music in Daniel. Also when the ark was returned and they were dancing and playing much music then the oxen stumbled and Uzza ended up dead. So with the alcohol I look back to Noah after the flood. The king and all the rulers in Esther and the bad decisions made there. Also remember to be totally sold out as a Nazarite you couldn't partake of the vine at all (Numbers Ch. 6). Now I'm not condemning grapes just giving an example. We're supposed to be a separated people called out by the Lord himself. Come out from among them and be ye separate and touch not the unclean thing is what the Lord said. Also remember the verses about being a stumbling block to others. A man once said he could worship God just as good from his boat on Sunday as anyone could in church. That may be so but everyone else thinks you're fishing.