Law Or The Prophets

[Guest]

I need help with these scriptures below, particularly v.19. Let me frame my questions as follows...

 

If we could live by obedience to the law we would require no Savior. We cannot live by the law and the prophets so we require a Savior, that is, God the Son, Jesus Christ. So, as a Christian, why would I ever teach the law and prophets are disobedience to God? That is, as a born again Christian, would it be wrong for me to obey as much as is possible in this earthly body?

 

Matthew 5:17-26  

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

[Ukulelemike]

First, we keep in mind that the gospels were part of the Old Testament, until Christ did and resurrected.

 

Next, why does Jesus say he came, in  these verses? "To fulfill the law, (and prophets).

 

When does Jesus say the law will pass, (jot and tittle)? When all is fulfilled. Which Jess came to do-fulfill. Once fulfilled, they no longer apply TO THOSE THAT ARE HIS.

 

Jesus lived and taught the law because He was a Jew under the law, until He fulfilled the law. Now, Jesus is the end of thew law for righteousness to those who believe. Those who reject Him will be judged by the law, those who believe on Him will be judged by our works for rewards, but salvation is secure.  

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The Apostles carried the same thought, UM.  In Acts 15, we find that the Jerusalem Council was demanding that the Gentile Believers "keep the Law of Moses," to which James stated emphatically that that yoke could not be put upon the necks of the Gentile Believers.

[Covenanter]

I'm disappointed with the answers so far.

 

The Law - the 10 Commandments - interpreted positively & by the standard of love for God & neighbour, represent the absolute standard of holy living. It applies to Christians. Paul writes:

Rom. 13:⁸ Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

⁹ For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

¹⁰ Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

That, of course, is not possible to perfection. Only Jesus lived a perfectly holy life.

 

The other aspect of the Law concerns atonement for sin. All the legal requirements, circumcision, the tabernacle, priesthood, sacrifices, festivals, etc, showed that atonement was a costly matter, to be repeated annually, showing that however carefully the procedures were followed, sin was not in fact dealt with. The ritual aspects of the Law showed the need for the Messiah - Abraham's Seed - offer a perfect atoning sacrifice. That is the Law that Paul insists is now worthless.

 

Gal. 3:⁸ And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

⁹ So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

¹⁰ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

¹¹ But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

¹² And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

¹³ Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

¹⁴ That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 

The Acts 15 conference concerned the argument that only the Jews were the true people of God, so that Gentile converts should submit to the Jewish ordinances, beginning with circumcision, and conform to the various rituals required by the Law. In no way was it an argument about godly living. Paul absolutely refutes the argument that Christians are free to sin because we are saved & justified by the righteousness of Christ:

 

Rom. 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

² God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

³ Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

⁴ Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

Sadly that last argument against needing to keep the Law is all too common these days. "You've acknowledged you are a sinner; you believe that Jesus died in your place for your sins; hallelujah! You are saved, saved for eternity; future sins cannot unsave you, so just get on with life without worrying about keeping the Law - because you can't."

 

I do not believe the Gospels are OT  teaching. Jesus is setting out his "Kingdom manifesto" for the new covenant - Gospel  age. Why should ungodly living be acceptable in the Gospel age? God forbid!

 

We should note two aspects of Habakkuk's message: the just shall live by his faith. Justification by faith in Christ - a once only saving faith; and thereafter living by faith; aka walking with God. 

 

Gal. 5:¹⁶ This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

¹⁷ For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

¹⁸ But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

¹⁹ Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

²⁰ Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

²¹ Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

²² But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

²³ Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

²⁴ And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

²⁵ If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

Believers have the Law written in our hearts - Hebrews is very helpful:

 

Heb. 8:¹⁰ For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

¹¹ And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

¹² For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

¹³ In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

David write that we should delight in the Law:

Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

² But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

 

That is not the slavish obedience advocated by Pharisees & Judaisers.

 

[Ukulelemike]

It aggravates me when people who see the teaching of Jesus being the end of the law for righteousness as somehow meaning we are without a law, or are lawless, that we believe we "just get on with life without worrying about keeping the Law - because you can't".

 

9 of the 10 commandments are repeated in the New Testament-it is obvious that we keep them. The difference being, our righteousness is not dependent upon it, because we are covered by the righteousness of Christ; we are justified by His righteousness. We do not keep the 10, for one was specifically given to Israel, the 4th, the seventh-day Sabbath. The other nine we keep as rules for living, along with many other commands given throughout the NT for the saved. But we will NOT be judged by the law or commandments-the lost will, but we will not.

 

Why did the Lord ensure that nine of the ten were repeated? because it was not to be just taken from the old-that has been done away in Christ, fulfilled by Him.  The commandments, written and graven on stone, were a ministration of death and condemnation,n abd have been done away. While some of the same things apply today, it is not because they were part of the old, but have been given fresh in the new. New wine in new bottles.

[Guest]

So, from these last two comments I would say my question's answer, "That is, as a born again Christian, would it be wrong for me to obey as much as is possible in this earthly body?" from these last two comments answers my question with a question.

 

Why would't I want to obey as much of the law and prophets as possible (1) having received salvation by grace through faith (2) wanting to please my Lord and Savior (very God) by walking as nearly as possible as Christ did to please the Father?

 

Of course that would not be attempting to perform sacrifices, that is surely done away with by Christ's death burial and resurrection. 

 

Now a new question! Which parts of the O.T. might continue to be pleasing to God? Is there a list somewhere of those things from the O.T. which would not dishonor Christ's completed work on the cross. (Hopefully without commentary but, with N.T. scripture reference). Anyone?

[ASongOfDegrees]

We are no longer under the law of Moses but rather the law of Christ, i.e. we look to fulfill the spirit of the law not the letter of the law. 

[John81]

We are no longer under the law of Moses but rather the law of Christ, i.e. we look to fulfill the spirit of the law not the letter of the law. 

Indeed, and if we are pursing the personal relationship with Christ we are called to, we will be living in accord with the two greatest commandments, which means we will be in the will of God.

 

(I wrote a much more in-depth post about this but cyberspace ate it)

[No Nicolaitans]

Romans 13:8-10

8   Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9   For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10   Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

[Guest]

But, back to the latter question of this thread. I would say the Ten Commandments, often quoted at OB by many of us, are still applicable to the Christian. (see Mt. 22:36-40) Here Christ would seem to simplify the Ten into Two; of the Ten most of us agree the first 4 pertain to our relationship with God and that last 6 to our relationship with one another. The Ten are as someone else pointed out fulfilled through Christ's Gospel; however, the Two remain one as "great" the other "as like unto it." If then in striving to follow the Two we follow the Ten I believe it would be pleasing to God. But, that we all have come short of keeping the Ten is fact. It is also fact that no man created is able to keep the Ten all at once through one entire day. Why wouldn't we try? Jesus Christ my Lord kept them and I want to be as much like him as I possibly can. (I know you may have to read the above again and still ask...what are you talking about!?)

 

What would you say to the following statement.

Attempting to obey the Ten Commandments as close as is fleshly possible would be pleasing to God. If there is no scripture refuting this then are there other O.T. scriptures we could obey which might also please God.

[John81]

But, back to the latter question of this thread. I would say the Ten Commandments, often quoted at OB by many of us, are still applicable to the Christian. (see Mt. 22:36-40) Here Christ would seem to simplify the Ten into Two; of the Ten most of us agree the first 4 pertain to our relationship with God and that last 6 to our relationship with one another. The Ten are as someone else pointed out fulfilled through Christ's Gospel; however, the Two remain one as "great" the other "as like unto it." If then in striving to follow the Two we follow the Ten I believe it would be pleasing to God. But, that we all have come short of keeping the Ten is fact. It is also fact that no man created is able to keep the Ten all at once through one entire day. Why wouldn't we try? Jesus Christ my Lord kept them and I want to be as much like him as I possibly can. (I know you may have to read the above again and still ask...what are you talking about!?)

 

What would you say to the following statement.

Attempting to obey the Ten Commandments as close as is fleshly possible would be pleasing to God. If there is no scripture refuting this then are there other O.T. scriptures we could obey which might also please God.

Under the New Covenant there is no need to try to obey the Ten Commandments as close as fleshly possible. Our call, as Christians, is to cast off our old self and put on Christ. Our "obedience to the law" is not to come from our own efforts, but rather through surrendering ourselves to the lordship of Christ in our lives. If Christ is truly Lord of our lives, if we are yielding to Him and follow Him rather than our flesh, then we will be in accord with those commandments without need for efforts to keep them.

[Guest]

Under the New Covenant there is no need to try to obey the Ten Commandments as close as fleshly possible. Our call, as Christians, is to cast off our old self and put on Christ. Our "obedience to the law" is not to come from our own efforts, but rather through surrendering ourselves to the lordship of Christ in our lives. If Christ is truly Lord of our lives, if we are yielding to Him and follow Him rather than our flesh, then we will be in accord with those commandments without need for efforts to keep them.

No need, I completely agree. I never proposed this as a need. I was only speaking to those who are born again by the blood of Jesus Christ. I never said "own efforts" that alludes to works, I am saying a desire to follow as closely as possible. In this flesh, none of us are capable of adhering to the Ten. I am postulating here that, as we draw nigh to Christ we draw nigh to the commandments of God in faith and practice. I believe there is no "try" in the new nature; regard for, and desire to please Christ will move us toward obeying everything God tells us as born again believers.

[John81]

No need, I completely agree. I never proposed this as a need. I was only speaking to those who are born again by the blood of Jesus Christ. I never said "own efforts" that alludes to works, I am saying a desire to follow as closely as possible. In this flesh, none of us are capable of adhering to the Ten. I am postulating here that, as we draw nigh to Christ we draw nigh to the commandments of God in faith and practice. I believe there is no "try" in the new nature; regard for, and desire to please Christ will move us toward obeying everything God tells us as born again believers.

I agree that as we draw nigh to the Lord we will also draw nigh to all the will of God. We will be living in accord with the Word.

[Covenanter]

So, from these last two comments I would say my question's answer, "That is, as a born again Christian, would it be wrong for me to obey as much as is possible in this earthly body?" from these last two comments answers my question with a question.

 

Why would't I want to obey as much of the law and prophets as possible (1) having received salvation by grace through faith (2) wanting to please my Lord and Savior (very God) by walking as nearly as possible as Christ did to please the Father?

 

Of course that would not be attempting to perform sacrifices, that is surely done away with by Christ's death burial and resurrection. 

 

Now a new question! Which parts of the O.T. might continue to be pleasing to God? Is there a list somewhere of those things from the O.T. which would not dishonor Christ's completed work on the cross. (Hopefully without commentary but, with N.T. scripture reference). Anyone?

Our inability to keep the 10 Cs perfectly does not lower God's standards for holy living. Any deliberate flouting of those laws renders our conversion questionable.

 

How many religious leaders secretly commit adultery, & when found out, express repentance & expect to be reinstated to the same office? How many get rich on freewill offerings to the Lord?

 

To answer your new question:

Get a good cross-reference Bible, read the NT & look up all the OT refs.

Gal. 3:¹⁰ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

¹¹ But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

 

Hab. 2:⁴ Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

 

The context of Habakkuk is the impending invasion by the Chaldeans, the destruction, & the exile. In a situation where the faithful believers suffer along with the wicked, we must live by faith. Two aspects of living by faith - salvation, and faithful living.

 

Even try reading Revelation in the same way !!???!!! You will be surprised to see the related contexts. I'll just give one example:

Rev. 6:⁸ And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

Ezek. 14:²¹ For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

[Ukulelemike]

And how many of us here do our best to keep the fourth commandment? The Sabbath? We all cry to keep the 10 commandments, but do we keep the Sabbath? It IS one of the ten. Sabbath-keepers, raise your hands.