Book The Harbinger Johnathan Cahn

[Jotselou]

Just started this book. Its on the best seller list and I would like to encourage Everyone to read. You will not look at this ol world the same! Its an amazing reality of whats going on right now!

[No Nicolaitans]

Not to be a nemesis here, but I wouldn't recommend people read it. I haven't read the book, but I've read reviews and listened to one person who read the book 9 times in order to grasp the details...

Cahn takes a little too much licence in applying things to America that were prophesied for Israel. Some of his similarities are stretched too far from what I understand. America isn't Israel, and what was prophesied for Israel...was for Israel.

Cahn denies it, but his book borders on Replacement Theology...

[Jotselou]

Your right and I agree America isn't Israel but it is fiction and I should have finished the book before commenting on it. Thanks for your comments.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Jotselou

[No Nicolaitans]

Your right and I agree America isn't Israel but it is fiction and I should have finished the book before commenting on it. Thanks for your comments.

Hi Jotselou! I hope you didn't feel that I was attacking you, because I wasn't.

I listened to a lengthy interview with Cahn, and he stated that how he got the idea for the book was a sermon that he preached to his church; in which, he compared the prophecies in Isaiah to what happened in New York when the terrorists attacked on 9/11. According to him, his congregation encouraged him to somehow get that message out, because they felt more people needed to hear it...so, he wrote "a fictional book based on real events and biblical prophecies."

The problem lies in this, though it is fictional, it's presented in a way in which people take it literally. People are coming away from reading the book convinced that the prophecies for Israel's doom are being applied to America. Again, I haven't read the book, but I've heard enough about it (from trustworthy sources) to know that there are theological problems with the book.

Since I haven't read the book, what I'm about to say may be a little vague...but there is one prophecy in particular...something about a tree that was destroyed and replaced (?)...according to what I've learned, the tree (in Cahn's book) wasn't actually the same kind of tree mentioned in the prophecy; however, Cahn searched until he found a Bible version (or manuscript) that would help him "prove" his point.

With that said, I know several sound fundamentalists who read the book, enjoyed it, and recommend it. However, they too come away with the same ideas; in that, the similarities are there...like Israel, this country is in trouble...like Israel, the judgment of God is on this country...etc...

I agree that America is in trouble, but I personally don't agree with someone using scripture out of context, twisting it, and applying it to suit their own motives in order to prove their point...even if they come to the same conclusions. We are free to read whatever we want; I just wish the people who read "The Harbinger" weren't so quick to accept it as truth...but unfortunately, the majority are.

It's never right to do wrong in order to do right.

Okay...I'll be quiet now. :coverlaugh: Edited July 14, 2012 by No Nicolaitans

[Jotselou]

Thankyou sooo much for your insight. It is very helpful and I agree whole heartily. Others should see this and know that it is fiction and not take it literally. You helped me in remembering that. This is a great place to get info and I enjoy this site as a source of information so keep it coming! Thanks again.

[No Nicolaitans]

Thankyou sooo much for your insight. It is very helpful and I agree whole heartily. Others should see this and know that it is fiction and not take it literally. You helped me in remembering that. This is a great place to get info and I enjoy this site as a source of information so keep it coming! Thanks again.

:thumb:

[LindaR]

The Harbinger-A Matter of Critical Discernment

by T. A. McMahon

The Harbinger is a novel that is becoming very popular among both Christians and non-Christians, even reaching the top of the New York Times best-seller list at this writing. What makes it worthy of review, like other books that we have addressed, is that it offers an important opportunity for believers to exercise critical discernment. In this case, author Jonathan Cahn believes that he has discovered prophetic signs from God that are found in the Old Testament and directly apply to the United States, referring in particular to the events surrounding the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. Because The Harbinger ( TH ) is a fictional novel with a large dose of nonfiction added (Scripture), this critique involves two aspects: 1) a personal, subjective opinion, and 2) a more objective consideration of the author’s application of Scripture in his novel.

Whenever we read a fictional story or see a movie, our evaluation is almost always subjective, e.g., what we like or don’t like about it. As the untutored art critic might say, “I don’t know anything about art, but I know what I like!” Even an art aficionado with some expertise rarely gets beyond the subjective, although he has a great deal more criteria than the everyday art lover for evaluating a work of art. In the end, it’s still just his opinion.

In my opinion, The Harbinger is a poor script. I say “script” because it reads more like a script than like a novel, lacking nearly all of the elements that go into making a first-rate work of fiction. It tries to fit into the genre of National Treasure and The Da Vinci Code but fails miserably in my view—and I’m hardly an admirer of The Da Vinci Code. The redundancy throughout the book borders on being insufferable. If it were eliminated, TH could easily have been reduced to half its size. In addition, the dialog is repetitious, yet little if any insight into the story’s characters is provided, with the result that we don’t get to know them any better than we would a stranger whom we might sit next to on a three-minute subway ride.

Complete article

[Oldtimer]

Upon the recomendation of a friend, I've just finished reading this book and do recommend it. I've also listened to a 5 part interview about the book, and have done some look up of reviews of the book, both pro and con.

First and foremost, it is written as fiction. That is evident from the beginning, so no one should be deceived from that standpoint. Someone complained about a lack of "character development" in the story line. They missed the point. The focus of this book isn't about the charcters in the book, themselves. Enough info is given to carry the story line. That was all that was needed.

The book revolves around Isaiah 9:10 (KJB)
¹⁰ The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.

There's been much discussion about the species of tree that was toppled when the Twin Towers fell. This is a relatively minor point, IMHO. I haven't researched it in depth and will tell why in a moment. From what I understand, since the NY tree doesn't grow in the middle East, there is a species there of the same family, which is comparable in qualities (strength/durability). Thus, it serves the purpose given in the verse quoted above. If we question that in depth, we also open the can of worms regarding the name of the tree chosen by the KJB translators. The author's point was that the replacement cedar was "better" than the one toppled. Just as hewn stone is "better" than bricks.

One thing I like about the book are the extensive footnotes that allow many points made in the book to be checked. Dates of events following 9-11 for example. Some may write those off as just coincidences. A word that I rarely ever use anymore. With God at the helm, it's growing increasingly difficult to shrug off happenings as "just coincidences", whether in our own daily lives or elsewhere.

As we read and study the Bible, we can often see parallels between what happened in blibical history and what we see happening today. This author has chosen to draw a parallel between Isaiah 9:10, 9-11 and afterwards. Oh, and at the founding of this country, too, that ties some seemingly unrelated events together.

Whether you agree or disagree with the parallel, IMHO, the book is well worth reading. Simply because it will make you think, if you allow that to happen. Accept it as history is repeating itself or challenge the premise. Use the scriptures, use the references given, and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. Form your own opinion, as you are led to do so.

In closing, I read a borrowed copy that I had to return as soon as I finished reading it. I hope to have another copy soon to read a second time. This time with a pen, paper, and keyboard at hand. It's one of the few books that I've encountered in recent years that I want to read again. (Other than the Bible, as I'll never "finish" reading God's word.)

Just my 2-cents for whatever pennies may be worth to you these days.

[John81]

There are too many worthwhile non-fiction books to be read I find it a waste of time to read fiction.

[HappyChristian]

Hmm - I read a lot. And I do mean a lot. Both non-fiction and fiction. There's a lot to be said in many fiction books, and many authors put in a lot of work to make them realistic. I'd rather read a good fiction book than watch a movie.

Oldtimer, thanks for your input. I may just read the book now.

[Oldtimer]

Hmm - I read a lot. And I do mean a lot. Both non-fiction and fiction. There's a lot to be said in many fiction books, and many authors put in a lot of work to make them realistic. I'd rather read a good fiction book than watch a movie.

Oldtimer, thanks for your input. I may just read the book now.

If you do read it, how about adding your review, pro or con. TIA

[inhislove1]

I am surprised at reviews from those that have not taken the time to read the book. In all politeness, if yu haven't read it for yourself, you should refrain from reviewing it. Someone else's opinion may differ from yours once you read it. Just like many of the political debates before us now, all are "experts" in what they say. No matter how good of sources you may think they are, get your opinion from your own perception of what is being said. I have read the book, and found it one I couldn't stop reading. It has been a while since I have had a book such as this one. It may be true that we are not Israel, but even Paul says that the things written in the old testemant were writted for us to use as a guide, and that we were to use it to live our faith by, to benefit our lives we live in Christ. We (those living in Christ Jesus) are now God's means of showing who He is to a dying world, (to whom the Israelites were chosen to be before Christ) that they may know to Whom they can run to and seek shelter from the storms of life, and God commands us to live our lives by the two laws of love; Love God with Your whole heart, mund , soul and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. and in so doing, you ovserve all the other laws. Yes, we as believers are under the same laws as Israel, but we now see them through the eyes of love. When we walk in the love of Christ, then we will obey all the laws of God. But, when we fail, then we will walk in the consequences of disobedience, which would seem to be what is happening here in the United States today. Take it as a fictional story, but also take from it the truths that are written within it. It was the same as the parrables that Jesus told. Many blew them off as only stories, but there was a very important spiritual message in each of those stories. So, I encourage anyone that has not read this book yet due to fear is is not of God and may mislead people, to read it and ask God to allow you to see the spiritual truths that are the underlining messages to the church in this story. It can really help guide you in a way you can pray for this nation as a whole. Amen?

[John81]

We can read Psalm 106 and see the similarities between ancient Israel and America. In that one Psalm we can see the results of following the Lord and turning from Him and how such effects a nation, a people, individuals. Through this Psalm we can find a multitude of prayer needs for our nation and see the need for us to live Christ for others to see and for spreading the Word and making disciples.

We can gain all this, and so much more, from the reading of one Psalm, one short chapter in the Word of God.


Hebrews 4:12

King James Version (KJV)

¹² For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[LindaR]

Here's an interesting critique of The Harbinger from Lighthouse Trails Blog:

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=9653

Yet, compelling as this all may be, The Harbinger has created some upheaval among several ministries. Some feel that Cahn, being a messianic rabbi, should not be questioned due to his deep insight into the Scriptures, and any criticism is nothing less than blasphemous and anti-Semitic. Now while we at Lighthouse Trails have witnessed, to our great sorrow, anti-Semitic sentiments even among Christians, Jonathan Cahn’s being Jewish does not exempt him from godly discernment. So, while Scripture urges us to “Despise not prophesyings” (1 Thessalonians 5:20), it also instructs us to “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). However, forming a definite opinion on The Harbinger has been difficult. As we have thought about this, we have come to realize we are dealing with a subject loaded with conflicting issues; hence this book perhaps raises more questions than it answers, and it is difficult not to form more than a single opinion of the book.

[John81]

Here's an interesting critique of The Harbinger from Lighthouse Trails Blog:

http://www.lighthous...om/blog/?p=9653

Yet, compelling as this all may be, The Harbinger has created some upheaval among several ministries. Some feel that Cahn, being a messianic rabbi, should not be questioned due to his deep insight into the Scriptures, and any criticism is nothing less than blasphemous and anti-Semitic. Now while we at Lighthouse Trails have witnessed, to our great sorrow, anti-Semitic sentiments even among Christians, Jonathan Cahn’s being Jewish does not exempt him from godly discernment. So, while Scripture urges us to “Despise not prophesyings” (1 Thessalonians 5:20), it also instructs us to “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). However, forming a definite opinion on The Harbinger has been difficult. As we have thought about this, we have come to realize we are dealing with a subject loaded with conflicting issues; hence this book perhaps raises more questions than it answers, and it is difficult not to form more than a single opinion of the book.

Sounds like the book puts forth confusion, which isn't good.