KJV Translation variance Gen 2:2 Heb 4:10

[Bakershalfdozen]

Ceased:

2664.
katapauvw katapauo, kat-ap-ow'-o; from 2596 and 3973; to settle down, i.e. (literally) to colonize, or (figuratively) to (cause to) desist:--cease, (give) rest(-rain).


Rested:

7673.
tbX shabath, shaw-bath'; a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific):--(cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

[Bakershalfdozen]

I don't understand why you are accusing the English translation of being at fault. Hebrews 4 uses the word "rest" quite a bit and and even quotes Genesis in Heb. 4:4. Then he uses 2 different Greek words in verse 10 to say the same thing. When a believer enters into the rest which Jesus gives, he ceases to do works, just like God did at Creation.


Heb. 4:

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

[John81]

:-S Wow! What a thread! :bonK:

[pneu-engine]

lltj,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem a bit arrogant with your rhetoric. :hmm:????? Why do you do that????

The reason that God "rested" from His work is because it was finished to absolute perfection. There was no need for Him to continue.

[pneu-engine]

I don't understand why you are accusing the English translation of being at fault. Hebrews 4 uses the word "rest" quite a bit and and even quotes Genesis in Heb. 4:4. Then he uses 2 different Greek words in verse 10 to say the same thing. When a believer enters into the rest which Jesus gives, he ceases to do works, just like God did at Creation.


Heb. 4:

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

:amen:

[Guest Guest]

lltj,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem a bit arrogant with your rhetoric. :hmm:????? Why do you do that????

The reason that God "rested" from His work is because it was finished to absolute perfection. There was no need for Him to continue.

I not being arrogant. Certianly no more than you calling what I wrote rhetoric as being arrogant.

Not only in question is the definiton of rest and cease but also why the translators used ceased in Hebrews 4:10 and not in Gen 2:2

Why the difference?

[Guest Guest]

Nope; not frustrated at all.

I went and looked in my own dictionary (Webster's New World Dictionary, 2nd Ed.): 2. to stop, stand, rest, remain - sounds like cease to me...

and at Merriam-Webster's online dictionary: 2 a: freedom from activity or labor b: a state of motionlessness or inactivity - sounds like cease to me...

and at TheFreeDictionary.com: 1. Cessation of work, exertion, or activity. - sounds like cease to me, especially since "cessation" is a form of cease...



Saying that rest and cease can't mean the same thing is like saying that rest and stand can't mean the same thing when in fact they can. A "rest" when used as a noun can be a stand for something. Another "rest" - also used as a noun - is a musical notation which means to stop singing; it doesn't mean lie down in the choir loft and start snoring.


You are most definitely splitting hairs with this "error". Find another one more substantial.

Now you provide a definition and before you simply told me "to go look it up"...

What changed?

[Guest Guest]

I don't understand why you are accusing the English translation of being at fault. Hebrews 4 uses the word "rest" quite a bit and and even quotes Genesis in Heb. 4:4. Then he uses 2 different Greek words in verse 10 to say the same thing. When a believer enters into the rest which Jesus gives, he ceases to do works, just like God did at Creation.


Heb. 4:

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

So hebrew 4:10 says that God rested? I never mentioned the other verses but that is fine if you want to mention them.

What is your point? Why did the translators use ceased in Hebrews 4:10?

Why doesn't it read

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath rested from his own works, as God did from his.

[Guest Guest]

Ceased:

2664.
katapauvw katapauo, kat-ap-ow'-o; from 2596 and 3973; to settle down, i.e. (literally) to colonize, or (figuratively) to (cause to) desist:--cease, (give) rest(-rain).


Rested:

7673.
tbX shabath, shaw-bath'; a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific):--(cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

Okay...

Lets make Gen 2:2 say celebrate.....

Would that be okay. Is celebrate the same definition as ceased or rested? By your definition it is....

When you speak of rest it carries the connotation of needing rest. Cease does not carry that connotation.

If you would be honest you would admit that ceased is a better choice of words... but you can't admit that can you???

[Marcus2Israel]

I find you slightly humerous IItj.. We have destroyed your arguments and yet you keep going.. And asking the same questions. After they have been well answered....
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

[Bakershalfdozen]

Look, I'm not one who is opposed to alternative word choices so don't peg me that way. For example, I know that "study to shew thyself approved..." means to be diligent, not just open a book. Why didn't the translators say, "be diligent..."? I have no idea but it isn't a matter to nit-pick because one can easily find out the meaning by looking at a concordance and/or dictionary.

I just see your focus on this particular word choice as childish. Rest and cease can indeed mean the same thing and your over-focus on this is just weird.

I provided a dictionary definition (actually 3) because you didn't look it up or didn't care after you did look it up. That benefits other readers of this thread as well.

[Guest Guest]

I find you slightly humerous IItj.. We have destroyed your arguments and yet you keep going.. And asking the same questions. After they have been well answered....
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Fristly.....It must be conveniant for you to considered the argument destroyed. If you feel that way they why even continue? You can drop out at anytime.

Secondily.... You should consider who 2 Timothy 3:7 is talking about. You might as well call me a heretic because I don't believe like you do.

Does those that follow after Godliness do such things in calling a fellow brother in Christ such things?

[Guest Guest]

Look, I'm not one who is opposed to alternative word choices so don't peg me that way. For example, I know that "study to shew thyself approved..." means to be diligent, not just open a book. Why didn't the translators say, "be diligent..."? I have no idea but it isn't a matter to nit-pick because one can easily find out the meaning by looking at a concordance and/or dictionary.

I just see your focus on this particular word choice as childish. Rest and cease can indeed mean the same thing and your over-focus on this is just weird.

I provided a dictionary definition (actually 3) because you didn't look it up or didn't care after you did look it up. That benefits other readers of this thread as well.

Sorry if I took you the wrong way. It seemed to me that you where frustrated. I apologize for making that assumption.

I only offered one example and my focus was upon that example. It is not childish to do so. There are many other examples of the same bad choice in words. That is the very nature of translation. When you find something that can go either way.... you make the best choice. Here we have an example of a bad choice in words. An inconsistant choice in words. I have a problem with that in the KJV and its not alone. I have that problem in every translation that does such.

Many people fight tooth and nail to defend a bad choice in words just because they think it will destroy their ideal of preservation and inspiration. Such is not the case and it should be looked at from that point of view. It sets faith irregardless of reason and faith has everything to do with reason. Faith is not unreasonible. When we find an issue as such..... then we can admit it and change it.

God never changes but WE certainly must change. If we do not..... then where not being conformed into the image of His dear Son.

[trc123]

Those prone to be of a "black and white" mentality, leaving no room for the greyscale and those recognizing there is a greyscale will never agree on this matter...............

[Guest Guest]

Those prone to be of a "black and white" mentality' date=' leaving no room for the greyscale and those recognizing there is a greyscale will never agree on this matter...............[/quote']

Can't we honestly say it more than just greyscale?

I see your point but don't agree with this matter being in the grey area. Its the cornerstone of ideals of translation. Its what every translator faces. Sometimes there are difficult choices but there are choices to be made. Choice does not equal perfection.... Often they are imperfect choices. That is clear to see. There is nothing grey about the matter.

Where is the greyscale?