Gospels or Epistles First?

[chui53]

I am new to this online forum. I am a liberty online student, working toward my masaters. from, claire

[Jedidiah]

I welcome you on board as well doing so to myself. i think coming upon this site while trying to read up some believers' view about a topic was my best a great joy to me. i am already enjoying writings from other forum memebers. its worth it to join, i must say.

[1Timothy115]

Welcome to both of you.

[Pastor Matt]

Welcome, glad to have you here.

[Crushmaster]

Welcome!
God bless,
Joel ><>.

[JerryNumbers]

Welcome. What is liberty online?

[John81]

Howdy!

[chui53]

Liberety University, a christian college in Lynchburg,,,Virginia. I am currently going for my bachelors degree. I went to Phoenix for 2 years.Nice to meet everyone and I do have a question for you all, Why were many of the epistles written before the Gospels?

[1Timothy115]

First, I know you know this and it's only a check to see if I also understand. It's good to be challenged and serves to make us stronger.

The Holy Spirit, led men to write down what he led them to write and when he led them to write it. The Gospels were written as records of the truth by men well stricken in age and/or near death from the executioner. Peter explains this in his second epistle, 2 Peter 1:12-21. Also, John in his Gospel and an epistle tells us why he wrote these...
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Additionally, there is Luke in his epistle, Theophilus, Luke 1:1-4, 4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Paul, because of the expanse of his ministry wrote many letters early and often. Then, when he knew the end was coming and he would be martyred he wrote to Timothy.
2 Timothy 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

So, as the Holy Spirit moved them through their ministry, He saw fit to have these Apostles and disciples write.

I'm sure you recall what Christ's last commandment was before his ascension, Matthew 28:18-19. I believe (just me) the Apostles and other disciples were actively engaged in obeying this commandment.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Thus, the Holy Spirit wasn’t moving the authors to write until He determined this to be the ministry they were to perform. You could say, as a result, the dating men have given to the Gospels and Epistles doesn’t really mean that much to me, personally; this would be true. Biblical chronologies will come and go but, this is more important to me…

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Second, I would have preferred a separate thread for this question. Because it is a question we could and do encounter from the lost as we witness. I have a sister-in-law who asked a very similar question however, unlike you, this is a stumbling block to her receiving Christ as Lord.

[John81]

Liberety University, a christian college in Lynchburg,,,Virginia. I am currently going for my bachelors degree. I went to Phoenix for 2 years.Nice to meet everyone and I do have a question for you all, Why were many of the epistles written before the Gospels?

I know several who got their Bachelors and/or Masters through Liberty University online.

[chui53]

I appreciate your answer to my question. It is one I have in class this week, still trying to get it all in. I know the Holy Spirit moved them to write each and every word so I guess the question I meant to ask is why were the gospels written 'after' the epistles. In the bible they have them first,thanks for the input, I wont be here as often as I would like I have ALOT of s chool work to do, see ya, claire
:clapping:

[chui53]

can someone help me define biblical worldview, thanks

[Jedidiah]

_________Though i will come back to yur question with more details: i wish t drop just a thought to you.

who said the epistle were written before the Gospels.....?


Take a look at these: Acts 1 : 1 - 4. (NIV)
¹ In my FORMER BOOK, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach ² until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. ³ After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. ⁴ On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.


This same Saint of God wrote the Gospel according to St. Luke which was his FORMER BOOK referred to in the above passage.........

so looking at it is there a note that the epistles were written before the book of the Gospels....? of course a good bible student will instant see that the answer is obviously________ NO.

I undertand this emphatically shows at least not all the books of the books of the Gospel were written after the epistles. however i hope to write more about this soon......

thank you

Edited April 24, 2012 by Jedidiah

[HappyChristian]

_________Though i will come back to yur question with more details: i wish t drop just a thought to you.

who said the epistle were written before the Gospels.....?


Take a look at these: Acts 1 : 1 - 4. (NIV)
¹ In my FORMER BOOK, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach ² until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. ³ After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. ⁴ On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.


This same Saint of God wrote the Gospel according to St. Luke which was his FORMER BOOK referred to in the above passage.........

so looking at it is there a note that the epistles were written before the book of the Gospels....? of course a good bible student will instant see that the answer is obviously________ NO.

I undertand this emphatically shows at least not all the books of the books of the Gospel were written after the epistles. however i hope to write more about this soon......

thank you

Jedidiah, just so you are aware, in case you didn't read the Board rules, we use only the King James here on Online Baptist. The topic you introduced is interesting, but would actually be better placed in the Biblical Issues forum. Thanks! I moved the thread to that forum so you can continue there.

[Calvary]

can someone help me define biblical worldview, thanks

A Biblical world view is a philosophy of ministry. Your world view will be derived from your philosophy of ministry or you "outlook" on why you do what you do. Just substitute Biblical world view for philosophy of ministry.

A PHILOSPHY OF MINISTRY:

Introduction: The church’s philosophy of ministry gives the reason why ministry is done in the church. It doesn’t tell us specifically what we are to do, rather why we do what we do. The philosophy of ministry, which is based on Biblical truths, principles and commands, spells out God’s ways and means of doing His work in the church. Contrary to man’s ways, which are man centered, pragmatic, and doomed to fail, God’s ways will always lead to true spiritual growth in the church, and will be that which gives God the greatest glory. This paper was developed from many sources several years ago. It has served me in soliciting support as a missionary and I have forwarded this as a means of measuring how we have made the Bible the basis for all we do for the Lord.


A successful philosophy of ministry will always start with God.

Based on the Character of God

A biblical philosophy of ministry must be based on the moral character or attributes of God.

A Biblical philosophy of ministry is based upon the character of God’s goodness is demonstrated in a church that proclaims and practices his love, mercy and grace. God’s love deals primarily with the whole creation. This love is demonstrated in the provision of life and the means to enjoy it (Psalms 104:21-24). More prominently, though, is His love for the Elect. This is a special kind of love wherein He commits Himself to the object of His love to the fullest and richest sense (Ephesians 1:4-8). God’s mercy is revealed in His compassion and pity for those who are in misery and distress. The idea of withholding wrath from the deserving is pictured. A biblical philosophy of ministry directs the local church to see their relationship to God from this perspective of love, out of which they are to relate to one another and to the lost outside of the church.
A Biblical philosophy of ministry is based on the holiness of God. When a church is preaching and practicing the holiness of God it will repulse or attract people (2 Corinthians 2:14-17). The local church consists of people redeemed and set apart for Christ and from the world and is called to be holy (1 Peter 3:15-16). The local church, therefore, must see herself as being in the world but not of the world.
Thirdly, a biblical philosophy of ministry demonstrates the righteousness of God. All the manifestations of the holy character of God are righteous. The former furthers sanctification and the latter leads to repentance and confession of sin. This implies just judgment upon all wrong doers, thus, striking fear in the heart of men, both believers and unbelievers (Psalms 89:4). Within the local church this means fairness and discipline (James 2:1-7), while outside of the church it means to stand against the injustices of society (Matthew 14:4).






Based on the Authority of Scripture

A biblical philosophy of ministry is based and founded on the authority of Scripture.

The character of God can only be known through His self-disclosure (Hebrews 1:3). Only through God’s revelation, the Bible, can He and His will be known (Deuteronomy 29:29). The Bible as the Word of God is both authoritative and relevant to the church.
There is no other authority for the life of the church outside of the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is the ultimate guide for planning, strategizing, the methodology, the theology and conceptualization of the ministries of the local church. The Bible is also relevant today. Although the Bible was written in time past it is not archaic and obsolete. Rather the universal principle truths found in it are eternal and transcends time, culture, language, and race and thus practical for the church today.

Based on a Proper View of Man

A biblical philosophy of ministry must have a proper and balanced view of man.

Humanity must be seen for what it is. The balanced and proper view is to see man as having a dual nature, one spirit and the other physical. In this dichotomy, each nature has its own need that a biblical church should and must meet. The spiritual nature of man is sometimes called the soul or heart which reflects its value as the image bearer of God and secondly as a fallen creature. Men are valued above the rest of Creation for he is created in God’s image (Genesis 9:6). This means the ability to reason, decide and act. These abilities go beyond the animal instinct to make decisions for survival rather on moral choices. The local church must see the value of humanity through the eyes of God. This image must be understood as now being corrupt (Ephesians 2:1-3). With Adam’s fall in the Garden this corrupted image has been passed on to all men (Romans 5:12). Man’s instinctive and natural response to God is rebellion.
Nevertheless, the Bible tells us of God’s love in redeeming men to Himself. It is the church’s duty to preach and proclaim the only truth that can remedy the fallen nature of man (Matthew 28:18-20). This truth is a reminder to the church not to be swayed by the interest of the general public or societal trends when it plans or strategize for ministry.
The church’s philosophy must also deal with the physical nature of man. This means meeting his physical needs (Matthew 25:35-36, also James 1:27). But one must be wise to discern the difference between a felt needs and real needs. There are needs that seem necessary but can be done without, needs like self fulfillment, peer acceptance and even companionship. Though good and beneficial they do not give hope, total fulfillment or develop a person’s well being. On the other hand, there are needs that must be met to bring well-being and maturity to a person (Colossians 1:28). Needs of the emotional and educational kind, must be met with capable counseling and training ministries within the church (1 Thessalonians 5:15).






Based on a Proper Purpose of the Church

The means to meeting the church’s purpose of glorifying God is by exalting Him, evangelizing the lost, exemplifying His values and edifying the believers.


Exalt God
The first purpose of the church is to glorify God.

Jesus said, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind” (Matthew 22:37). Our love for God is revealed in our obedience to Him (John 14:15). We exalt God by fully committing our lives to Him in obedience (1 Peter 2:12). Our personal or corporate time of worship is merely the sum and culmination of our whole life being committed to loving God with all of our hearts, mind and soul.
A biblical worship service meets the criteria for a God-centered worship, which also reveals the local church’s spiritual health. First, biblical worship is theo-centric and not anthropo-centric. The doctrines, songs, practices centers on and around the elevation of God, His character and work. Secondly, worship is Christ Centered. The head of the church is Jesus Christ. He is the only mediator between man and God.
Every message, song and activity done in a worship service continually points to the primacy of Jesus Christ. Thirdly, it is worship that edifies the saints (1 Corinthians 14). The church gathers primarily for the edifying of the believers. The worship service must meet the need of the body to be edified. This is met through systematic expository preaching, songs that uplift the spirit and the soul and fellowship that reveals God’s love through the members (Act 2:42).
Thirdly, biblical worship is relevant. Worship must be flexible to its culture and time.

God bless,
calvary Edited April 26, 2012 by Calvary