Men and Women appart

[dskysmine]

@swathdiver,
I wasn't citing Scripture... my name is Daniel. That's what I meant.

@John81
I believe Jesus is my Saviour... that is not to say that I believe in what some Baptists call "Saved once... saved forever"...

@1Tim115
No... I wasn't talking about the Word of God having changed... I was mentioning the fact that to a lot of Christians there is no current authority as the Apostles.
If you believe there are still Apostles living, please share where I can find them.

@Wilchbla
It's called misspelling.

One in Christ,
D

[swathdiver]

@swathdiver,
I wasn't citing Scripture... my name is Daniel. That's what I meant.

@John81
I believe Jesus is my Saviour... that is not to say that I believe in what some Baptists call "Saved once... saved forever"...

You meant to say your name is Daniel? I know your name, been using it in our discussion. Look, I'm just an old divemaster, you're obviously very highly educated but could you please write at the 4th or 5th grade level and not assume that everyone has ESP please?

Daniel, could you please show me where in the Scriptures one can lose their salvation?

[dskysmine]

You meant to say your name is Daniel? I know your name, been using it in our discussion. Look, I'm just an old divemaster, you're obviously very highly educated but could you please write at the 4th or 5th grade level and not assume that everyone has ESP please?

Daniel, could you please show me where in the Scriptures one can lose their salvation?

Sure. Will try my best to be more clear.
Rom 11:22,
1 Cor 9:24-27
1 Cor 10:1-12
II Corinthians 6:1
Colossians 1:22-23
I Timothy 1:18-19
Hebrews 2:2-3
Hebrews 3:12-14
Heb 10:26-31
Hebrews 4:11
2 Peter 2:20
2 Peter 3:17-18
just a few examples....

[1Timothy115]

edited to say: whereever you see the smiley face in shades it is actually a "b"

@1Tim115
No... I wasn't talking about the Word of God having changed... I was mentioning the fact that to a lot of Christians there is no current authority as the Apostles.
If you believe there are still Apostles living, please share where I can find them.

Greetings, I had to find some references for you or, I would have been back sooner.


From what I understand, your search may be short lived, they may be where you can see or touch them. So, I think you have another local church office to consider.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1 Corinthians 15:5-8
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Apostle
Strong's Number G652 matches the Greek ἀπόστολος (apostolos), which occurs 81 times in 80 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV.
1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
‘a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
‘ in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
1) of Barnabas
2) of Timothy and Silvanus

I suppose you could question if those “apostles” of today are (1) delegates, (2) messengers or (3) sent forth with orders. Personally, I believe Strong was a little strong with his use of “eminent” in his definition. It is the broader sense or definition of the word “apostle” I’m referring to. Since Matthew 28:19-20 refer to each of us then I would say every true Christian (fulltime ministry or layperson) could be an apostle, that is sent to teach God’s word. However, Paul in Ephesians narrows that definition to “he gave some, apostles.” But, we should avoid saying “it’s only in our group or denomination” as some denominations and cults would have you believe. Some means more than one every time.


Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I wish I had the skill to draw an arrow here pointing from “whatsoever I have commanded you” back up to “Go ye therefore.” The point is we are sent.

I’m not the only one who believes the “apostleship” extends beyond "the twelve or the eleven". I believe Paul would agree from his epistles (1 Cor. 9:5, 1 Cor. 12:28-29, 2 Cor. 11:5&13, Eph. 4:11) also John speaks of “thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not,” (Rev. 2:22). I'm taking Christian liberty to say, if they found them who were not, it may be possible to have found them who are. I know the scripture does not say this but, with the agreement of other scripture I take this liberty.

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown, Commentary on 1 Corinthians 15, Verse 7 “all the apostles--The term here includes many others besides "the Twelve" already enumerated ( 1Cr 15:5 ): perhaps the seventy disciples ( Luk 10:1 ) [CHRYSOSTOM].”

John Chrysostrom, isn’t sure but that it applies to the “70 disciples” but, he also believed infants must be baptized.

The ISBE is too long to type/quote and I don’t have an online resource, so this short comment, “while the other apostles mentioned in the NT were apostles in some inferior sense. It is hardly possible, however, to make out a distinction on the ground of NT usage.”
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Eerdmans, 1980, Vol. 1, P. 203.

I’m not the only one who believes there are most likely apostles within traveling distance to each of us, not “the twelve.” Of course if you count the short trip to glory, which could occur this second while you read this, you’re within the twinkling of an eye away from “the eleven.”
Then, there are some who possibly will not see either heaven or eleven. Edited March 15, 2012 by 1Tim115

[swathdiver]

Sure. Will try my best to be more clear.
Rom 11:22,
1 Cor 9:24-27
1 Cor 10:1-12
II Corinthians 6:1
Colossians 1:22-23
I Timothy 1:18-19
Hebrews 2:2-3
Hebrews 3:12-14
Heb 10:26-31
Hebrews 4:11
2 Peter 2:20
2 Peter 3:17-18
just a few examples....

Not sure if I should call this heresy or blasphemy? Let's stick with salvation, you're not ready for anything else.

[Invicta]

Talk about grammar police and being uptight about these thing, what does "appart" mean?

AH, that is not grammar, it is spelling.

[John81]

Not sure if I should call this heresy or blasphemy? Let's stick with salvation, you're not ready for anything else.

That's the main and only important and worthwhile point right now.

[Invicta]

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


First you have to believe, then you have everlasting life. If it is everlasting, you cannot lose it.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Invicta

[Wilchbla]

AH, that is not grammar, it is spelling.

Now you are splitting hairs. Typing "there" instead of "their" can be chalked up to poor spelling also.

By the way, you will find a chapter on proper spelling in every grammar book.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_spelling_considered_part_of_grammar

[dskysmine]

Not sure if I should call this heresy or blasphemy? Let's stick with salvation, you're not ready for anything else.

Definition of "If" (Merriam Webster)
1a : in the event that b : allowing that c : on the assumption that d : on condition that

2: whether <asked if the mail had come> <I doubt if I'll pass the course>

3—used as a function word to introduce an exclamation expressing a wish <if it would only rain>

4: even though : although perhaps <an interesting if untenable argument>

5: and perhaps not even <few if any changes are expected> —often used with not <difficult if not impossible>
— if anything : on the contrary even : perhaps even <if anything, you ought to apologize>

edited to say: whereever you see the smiley face in shades it is actually a "b"
Greetings, I had to find some references for you or, I would have been back sooner.


From what I understand, your search may be short lived, they may be where you can see or touch them. So, I think you have another local church office to consider.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1 Corinthians 15:5-8
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Apostle
Strong's Number G652 matches the Greek ἀπόστολος (apostolos), which occurs 81 times in 80 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV.
1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
‘a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
‘ in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
1) of Barnabas
2) of Timothy and Silvanus

I suppose you could question if those “apostles” of today are (1) delegates, (2) messengers or (3) sent forth with orders. Personally, I believe Strong was a little strong with his use of “eminent” in his definition. It is the broader sense or definition of the word “apostle” I’m referring to. Since Matthew 28:19-20 refer to each of us then I would say every true Christian (fulltime ministry or layperson) could be an apostle, that is sent to teach God’s word. However, Paul in Ephesians narrows that definition to “he gave some, apostles.” But, we should avoid saying “it’s only in our group or denomination” as some denominations and cults would have you believe. Some means more than one every time.


Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I wish I had the skill to draw an arrow here pointing from “whatsoever I have commanded you” back up to “Go ye therefore.” The point is we are sent.

I’m not the only one who believes the “apostleship” extends beyond "the twelve or the eleven". I believe Paul would agree from his epistles (1 Cor. 9:5, 1 Cor. 12:28-29, 2 Cor. 11:5&13, Eph. 4:11) also John speaks of “thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not,” (Rev. 2:22). I'm taking Christian liberty to say, if they found them who were not, it may be possible to have found them who are. I know the scripture does not say this but, with the agreement of other scripture I take this liberty.

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown, Commentary on 1 Corinthians 15, Verse 7 “all the apostles--The term here includes many others besides "the Twelve" already enumerated ( 1Cr 15:5 ): perhaps the seventy disciples ( Luk 10:1 ) [CHRYSOSTOM].”

John Chrysostrom, isn’t sure but that it applies to the “70 disciples” but, he also believed infants must be baptized.

The ISBE is too long to type/quote and I don’t have an online resource, so this short comment, “while the other apostles mentioned in the NT were apostles in some inferior sense. It is hardly possible, however, to make out a distinction on the ground of NT usage.”
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Eerdmans, 1980, Vol. 1, P. 203.

I’m not the only one who believes there are most likely apostles within traveling distance to each of us, not “the twelve.” Of course if you count the short trip to glory, which could occur this second while you read this, you’re within the twinkling of an eye away from “the eleven.”
Then, there are some who possibly will not see either heaven or eleven.

Hi 1Tim115,
Thank you for the explanation and the funny rhyme.
As you yourself have said even Paul narrows the definition, so I don't see why one should apply the title to any Christian, with all due respect to all Christians.
As far as I know there is quite a consensus that the Apostolic age ended in the early second century as if it didn't we would still be adding "letters" to the bible.

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

First you have to believe, then you have everlasting life. If it is everlasting, you cannot lose it.

Definition of "If" (Merriam Webster)
1a : in the event that b : allowing that c : on the assumption that d : on condition that

2: whether <asked if the mail had come> <I doubt if I'll pass the course>

3—used as a function word to introduce an exclamation expressing a wish <if it would only rain>

4: even though : although perhaps <an interesting if untenable argument>

5: and perhaps not even <few if any changes are expected> —often used with not <difficult if not impossible>
— if anything : on the contrary even : perhaps even <if anything, you ought to apologize>

[John81]

Psalm 1

¹Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
²But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
³And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
⁴The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
⁵Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
⁶For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

[1Timothy115]

Hi 1Tim115,
Thank you for the explanation and the funny rhyme.
As you yourself have said even Paul narrows the definition, so I don't see why one should apply the title to any Christian, with all due respect to all Christians.
As far as I know there is quite a consensus that the Apostolic age ended in the early second century as if it didn't we would still be adding "letters" to the bible.

There are too many who agree the term "apostle" applies to more than just "the twelve or the eleven." But that is just an aside which makes for interesting study. My local church is satisfied having pastors and deacons. I don't think the pastor wants a new title either. Could you see me saying, "Welcome to our church, let me introduce you to the apostles."

Yea, that little rhyme just seemed to fit.

[dskysmine]

There are too many who agree the term "apostle" applies to more than just "the twelve or the eleven." But that is just an aside which makes for interesting study. My local church is satisfied having pastors and deacons. I don't think the pastor wants a new title either. Could you see me saying, "Welcome to our church, let me introduce you to the apostles."

Yea, that little rhyme just seemed to fit.

I didn't say that it applied to just the twelve or the eleven...
Anyway, thank you for sharing.

[JerryNumbers]

At a small town south of us had an advertising in the paper, come listen to "Apostle so & so, anyone that knows Bible truths knows that the apostles did not appoint new apostles, while there is nothing stating they even had such power, or authority, so anyone claiming to be an apostle is doing so under their own power, authority, & are outside of God's will.

[swathdiver]

Liberal churches love to apply the term bishop and apostle to their "leaders". One "bishop" who was recently accused of some perversion had himself crowned King, so he's now equal to God and Christ in his world. The video of this annointing made me wanna puke, it was such a sham and fraud and yet the congregation was on their feet in adoration and applause.