Men and Women appart

[dskysmine]

Good afternoon,
I was told that this is the correct part of the Forum to ask questions so here it goes:
I was going through the Forum and I noticed that the Forum for Men is in the part for Independent Fundamental Baptist and the Forum for "Ladies" is in Christian Living.
Is there a particular reason for this?
Since we are talking about men and women and I am trying to learn about Baptists I'd also like to ask if Independent Fundamental Baptists consider it "ok" or "good" for a woman to become a pastor. Even if it is a pastor for the young people in a big community with 2 pastors? (my girlfriend is a baptist that is currently doing her masters in Theology and is considering becoming a youth pastor)
I ask this because I have heard answers from a lot of baptists regarding this and I have no clear answer as to what is the correct understanding according to Baptists, if there is any.
Also, are women to be allowed to work outside of the home? I have also heard several interpretations regarding this.
Thank you
One in Christ,
D

[Pastor Matt]

The only reason why they are in separate forums is because of forum permissions. The Men's forum is in a private area of OB, and the Woman's forum redirects to an independent ladies website.

[John81]

According to Scripture, only men are to be pastors, so any female "pastor" is violating the Word of God and therefore not in the will of God acting as a pastor of any kind. See First Timothy 3.

[swathdiver]

...I'd also like to ask if Independent Fundamental Baptists consider it "ok" or "good" for a woman to become a pastor.

...my girlfriend is a baptist ...and is considering becoming a youth pastor

A Masters degree huh? How did she ever get past Titus and Timothy?

Do you know what Titus and Timothy say about the office of Pastor? A bible believing Baptist will follow the Word of God and not the machinations of man.

What kind (translation) of Bible do you read? What kind does your girlfriend use?

[heartstrings]

I read a KJB....and neither Timothy nor Titus mentions "the office of a pastor". A Bible believer....Baptist or not....gets his words straight in the Word of God.

dskysmine,
Good for you on the Master's degree; I wish I had one myself. This is what Timothy does say......
1Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

[swathdiver]

I read a KJB....and neither Timothy nor Titus mentions "the office of a pastor". A Bible believer....Baptist or not....gets his words straight in the Word of God.

dskysmine,
Good for you on the Master's degree; I wish I had one myself. This is what Timothy does say......
1Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Are the folks on this forum getting touchy (quibbling over words) or is it me? My King James Bible does say something about pastors in 1 Timothy 3 and in Titus 1. Doesn't yours in these sections?

[1John2:15-17]

1 Timothy 3:1-6 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?). Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

[John81]

Are the folks on this forum getting touchy (quibbling over words) or is it me? My King James Bible does say something about pastors in 1 Timothy 3 and in Titus 1. Doesn't yours in these sections?

Indeed.

[heartstrings]

We insist on carrying the King James Bible, because it has the correct words but in practice, we play around with the Word of God..

#1 Why is it we have no BISHOPS in Independent Baptist churches? (none that I know of anyway)Why?
#2 Why no ELDERS either?

Yet we attribute the AUTHORITY of BISHOPS and the RULING power of ELDERS to the office of pastor. An ELDER is NOT a pastor unless he is an OLDER MAN, yet some 'pastors' claim that elder=pastor? Why? Because elders get to RULE, that's why. So if you are a 'Bishop" why not use the Biblical title of Bishop? And if you truly are an "elder" why not call yourself one, officially? You want the power these words hold but don't want to be called one? The word "Pastor" is in the New Testament only ONCE in your King James Bible, yet it has no description with it like the "Bishop" and "elder" has. Why do you want the power these offices enjoy but don't want to be called such?

Point is, the KIng James Bible is word specific. If it is a different word it MUST mean something different. How hard is that? Just keep adding to and taking away from the Word of God.......

Edited March 12, 2012 by heartstrings

[John81]

We insist on carrying the King James Bible, because it has the correct words but in practice, we play fast and loose with those words.

#1 Why is it we have no BISHOPS in Independent Baptist churches? (none that I know of anyway)Why?
#2 Why no ELDERS either?

Yet we attribute the AUTHORITY of BISHOPS and the RULING power of ELDERS to the office of pastor. An ELDER is NOT a pastor unless he is an OLDER MAN, yet some 'pastors' claim that elder=pastor? Why? Because elders get to RULE, that's why. So if you are a 'Bishop" why not use the Biblical title of Bishop? And if you truly are an "elder" why not call yourself one, officially? You want the power these words hold but don't want to be called one? The word "Pastor" is in the New Testament only ONCE in your King James Bible, yet it has no description with it like the "Bishop" and "elder" has. Why do you want the power these offices enjoy but don't want to be called such? Because the Blacks and Mormons do?

Point is, the KIng James Bible is word specific. If it is s different word it MUST mean something diffferent. How hard is that? Just keep playing fast and loose with the Word oif God....

There are elders in some Baptist churches, and the term pastor is simply another term for bishop, which you already know from what you have posted elsewhere.

As has been discussed in other threads, we already know the use of the term bishop fell out of favor mostly because of its intertwined association with the RCC. Typically, it was only those churches who remained close to the RCC in many practices that also retained using the term bishop.

Notice the Word doesn't say that only the term bishop is proper, it speaks to the office of bishop. One could go on about this, but the point is rather clear from Scripture unless one simply wants a point to argue.

[heartstrings]

Show me where I said it and I will repent and appologize for doing so.

[Pastor Matt]

Are the folks on this forum getting touchy (quibbling over words) or is it me? My King James Bible does say something about pastors in 1 Timothy 3 and in Titus 1. Doesn't yours in these sections?

:thumb:

[Guest]

Here is what I found about the leadership within the church...

bishop
Strong's Number G1985 matches the Greek ἐπίσκοπος (episkopos), which occurs 5 times in 5 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJB.

masculine noun

1) an overseer
a) a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are done rightly, any curator, guardian or superintendent
'b)the superintendent, elder, or overseer of a Christian church


Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.



pastor
Strong's Number G4166 matches the Greek ποιμήν (poimēn), which occurs 17 times in 17 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJB.

masculine noun

1) a herdsman, esp. a shepherd
a) in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow
2) metaph.
a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church
1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies
2) of kings and princes

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Matthew 9:36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

Mat 25:32 KJV shepherd
Mat 26:31 KJV shepherd
Mar 6:34 KJV shepherd
Mar 14:27 KJV shepherd
Luk 2:8 KJV shepherd
Luk 2:15 KJV shepherd
Luk 2:18 KJV shepherd
Luk 2:20 KJV shepherd
Jhn 10:2 KJV shepherd
Jhn 10:11 KJV shepherd
Jhn 10:12 KJV shepherd
Jhn 10:14 KJV shepherd
Jhn 10:16 KJV shepherd
Hbr 13:20 KJV shepherd
1Pe 2:25 KJV shepherd


husband
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Strong's Number G435 matches the Greek ἀνήρ (anēr), which occurs 215 times in 193 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJB.

masculine noun

1) with reference to sex
a) of a male
'B] of a husband
c) of a betrothed or future husband
2) with reference to age, and to distinguish an adult man from a boy
3) any male

Mat 1:16 KJV husband
Mat 1:19 KJV husband
Mat 7:24 KJV man
Mat 7:26 KJV man
Mat 12:41 KJV men
Mat 14:21 KJV men
Mat 14:35 KJV men
Mat 15:38 KJV men
Mar 6:20 KJV man
Mar 6:44 KJV men
Mar 10:2 KJV man
Mar 10:12 KJV husband
Luk 1:27 KJV man
Luk 1:34 KJV man
Luk 2:36 KJV husband
Luk 5:8 KJV man
Luk 5:12 KJV man
Luk 5:18 KJV men
Luk 7:20 KJV men
Luk 8:27 KJV man
Luk 8:38 KJV man
Luk 8:41 KJV man
Luk 9:14 KJV men
Luk 9:30 KJV men
Luk 9:32 KJV men

edit: to change the b close parens to 'B] so it wont appear as B)

Edited March 12, 2012 by 1Tim115

[heartstrings]

Where did "husband" come into question?

Bishop
Origin:
before 900; Middle English; Old English bisc ( e ) op < Vulgar Latin *ebiscopus, for Late Latin episcopus < Greek epískopos overseer, equivalent to epi- epi- + skopós watcher; see scope

Pastor
Origin:
1325–75; < Latin pāstor shepherd, literally, feeder, equivalent to pās-, base of pāscere to put to pasture, feed + -tor -tor; replacing Middle English pastour < Anglo-French

Elder
Origin:
before 900; Middle English; Old English eldra, comparative of eald old


The word "elder" in the King James was translated from the Greek word." Prebuteros"; the exact same word used for the "elder brother" in Luke 15, and for the "elders"(plural) in James 5:14 where they called for the "elders" of the church so if "elders" meant "pastors", how many 'pastors' did that church have? James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: I guess they called for the junior and senior pastors huh?

[JerryNumbers]

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Tit 1:6 ¶ If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

A pastor is to be a man, a woman cannot be the husband of one wife, so that in itself rules out women being pastor of a New Testament Church.

And of course there is this verse.

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.