what is the role of the layperson?

[irishman]

The topic question is somewhat vague, I know, but I wonder of the layity has a right to admonish a preacher even when he is wrong? Where do we draw the line? If we pack up and leave because of decisions that are made, and out of our "field" then we are ostrcized for being critical or haed to get along with. many decision affect the direction of the entire church body, and therefore they are our business, but to go to the preacher to "straighten him out"? Let's have some thoughts on this.

[HappyChristian]

I think if we go to the preacher with the intention of "straightening him out," we are already in the wrong. However, if the pastor is wrong scripturally - whether in doctrine or practice - it is the responsibility of the membership to go to him. But go to him with deference for his position as the under-shepherd. I truly think that some of the problem in the church today is the idea that the pastor is untouchable even from anyone pointing out any error.

A pastor is a minister, a servant. That doesn't mean the membership can walk all over him, but it does mean that the pastor should have the humility to be willing to at least listen to the members who have concerns about doctrinal or practice questions. But members should also have the humility to admit when they are wrong scripturally.

I've heard preachers preach that no members of their church have the right to question anything, all based on the OT verse "touch not mine anointed." But that verse was specifically referencing the kings that God chose...and pastors are not kings...

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Sometimes people tend to overlook some obvious things, 2 examples:

1) commands concerning how we should treat brothers and sisters in Christ (Eph 4:31-32; Col 3:9-13 and many others) apply to our treatment of our saved spouse (and children) also, violating these is SIN and needs to be repented of and forgiveness asked (yes, seek forgiveness of the spouse or child - to not do so is due to PRIDE!!)

2) the verses in 1 Cor 5; Mt 18; Gal 6 and others also apply to a brother (saved person), who happens to be a member of our church, and is the pastor.


Let the fun begin --- somebody's almost certain to bicker (hopefully not)

[Brother Rick]

This is a good subject and I'm really looking forward to hearing some insight.

I disagreed with a pastor once that I was under on something that I believed was really important. I won't give details about what it was or who the pastor was. I expressed my thoughts to him in a letter, and then went to meet with him about it. He disagreed with me on it, and refused to change how they were handling the issue. I told him that I believed he was wrong, but that God put me under him to try and serve the Lord the best I could in the place that I was and that I would remain there. I told him that I believe he is accountable for the decision, and that my hands were clean because I went to him about it with the information I had.

It wasn't the sort of scenario where I would leave, but it was a serious thing and I think he was wrong on it.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

It appears that you handled it in a proper manner and if he was wrong he will give an account later, and probably see a lack of blessing immediately (especially if the Lord dealt with him if he was in error and refused to either see it or refused to look at the possibility of his error).

It is also possible that you didn't have all the info, I have seen things handled leaving some thinking it was too strict with others thinking it was too lenient.

Edited February 24, 2012 by OLD fashioned

[irishman]

I speak of ethical practices that effect the congregation as well as the direction of the church. Will God bless a church that preaches the Gospel, but gets off on other tangeants? I think not.

Should I remain there if I feel the Lord will not bless us?
(No problem now, just musing.)

[John81]

I speak of ethical practices that effect the congregation as well as the direction of the church. Will God bless a church that preaches the Gospel, but gets off on other tangeants? I think not.

Should I remain there if I feel the Lord will not bless us?
(No problem now, just musing.)

That would probably depend upon what those other tangents are.

As to when to leave a church, that's something we need to follow the Lord's direction. If the church is off on fundamental doctrine then it's time to seek the Lord's guidance to the church He would have us attend. If the church is soundon fundamental doctrine but there is some other concern, then it's time to seek the Lord's guidance.

[heartstrings]

The topic question is somewhat vague, I know, but I wonder of the layity has a right to admonish a preacher even when he is wrong? Where do we draw the line? If we pack up and leave because of decisions that are made, and out of our "field" then we are ostrcized for being critical or haed to get along with. many decision affect the direction of the entire church body, and therefore they are our business, but to go to the preacher to "straighten him out"? Let's have some thoughts on this.

Where is the word or even the concept of "laity" in the Bible? Where is the 'us and them' mentality?

The "seed of Abraham" are God's anointed. Psalm 105:6-10
We who belong to Christ are the seed of Abraham. Galatians 3:26-29
We are the ones that He will "walk before for ever" 1 Samuel 2:35
God has anointed. all of us who are His 1 John 2:27

We need to take care not to use "touch not mine anointed" as a defensive weapon of spiritual blackmail, we need to give the whole counsel of God:we need tell the whole truth and take heed of it.: Because even God's anointed are not supposed to touch God's anointed. David (who was anointed) had the wisdom enough to realize it....... 1 Samuel 24:6 1Samuel 26:9

[heartstrings]

The topic question is somewhat vague, I know, but I wonder of the layity has a right to admonish a preacher even when he is wrong? Where do we draw the line? If we pack up and leave because of decisions that are made, and out of our "field" then we are ostrcized for being critical or haed to get along with. many decision affect the direction of the entire church body, and therefore they are our business, but to go to the preacher to "straighten him out"? Let's have some thoughts on this.

Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another: Proverbs 25:9
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Matthew 18:15

How about when "laity" goes to a preacher, from another church, in private, about a personal matter concerning just the two of them. and the preacher runs and tells that person's pastor (his friend) about it? I mean, if a lay person is running around gossiping to everyone, that's one thing, but going to someone to contend with them alone in private is an entirely different matter. Is that Biblical? If a man is "God's anointed" shouldn't he be spiritual enough to be an example by following the scriptures himself? I mean, lay people are openly labeled as 'goats' and troublemakers if they talebear and try to undermine and spread gossip. I've seen people do it and it's definitely ungodly. But going to another brother in private about a private matter is certainly Biblical and right, To put people in fear by making oneself "God's anointed" and thereby untouchable and unquestionable is not right.