Does our appearance for Christ make a difference?

[Annie]

John, that's not what my King James Bible says...It says in I Corinthians 11:

Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

I would be interested in your comments on the bolded parts.
Also, it's worth considering that in Paul's day, who were the women who shaved their heads to worship? If Christian women shaved their heads, with whom would they be identifying? There are major cultural implications and references in this passage that must be understood if we are to know what Paul is saying here. Paul's appeal to 'judge in yourselves' is one of these implications that can easily be missed in a surface reading of the passage.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Annie

[John81]

What's most worth noting is that for most of Christian history the teaching on this was consistent with regards to long hair on women and short hair on men. It wasn't until the 20th century there were calls for change in this.

In any event, what I started this thread for isn't even being addressed.

[JerryNumbers]

I have long hair. But what I would like to ask is " How long is "long?" My hair is half way down my back... my neighbor's hair is half way down her legs - almost to her knees. My friend at church has shoulder length hair. Another friend has hair just to the top of the collar. What is Long?

Its too long.

Edited to add.

One poster assumed you were a woman, I assumed you were a man, if your not a man, I apologize. Edited December 2, 2011 by Jerry80871852

[heartstrings]

Just from reading post number 20, I would infer that Qunkie is a girl.

[quinkie]

I am a woman and have been all my life. I should have put that in my original post but forgot to. I am sorry for the confusion.

[John81]

I am a woman and have been all my life. I should have put that in my original post but forgot to. I am sorry for the confusion.

Thank you for your contributions as a lifelong woman!

[HappyChristian]

John, I did address your OP - asked a question...would you mind answering it? Perhaps you didn't see it...?

[Brother Rick]

The very first sentence of the OP was about women serving in the church with short hair and how that somehow it's wrong. The entire premise of the OP was based upon an assumption that short hair is a sin, something the Bible never says.

[heartstrings]

What's most worth noting is that for most of Christian history the teaching on this was consistent with regards to long hair on women and short hair on men. It wasn't until the 20th century there were calls for change in this.

In any event, what I started this thread for isn't even being addressed.

Know any of these guys?









Didn't really short hair begin to be seen around the time of WWI?

[Annie]

That is a really good post, heartstrings. "Long" and "short" are indeed defined by culture, as are expressions of masculinity and femininity. The point of this Scripture is that men and women should worship reverently, fulfilling their respective roles. Women who wear their hair like the men (shaved or shorn) are usurping the headship of those men. Paul calls us to "judge in ourselves." We are to make informed decisions based on our own culture's expressions of masculinity/femininity, not base our standards on a culture which is long gone. (I'm sure my husband would raise a few IFB eyebrows if he grew his hair out to the length of Wycliffe's or Jonathan Edwards' or Spurgeon's.)

The pictures that heartstrings posted are a reminder that not everyone has the same definitions of "long" and "short"...and because that is so, it would behoove us as believers not to judge one another based on our own personal definitions and ideas. That said, however, I think there's a point at which we can all agree (based on culture, really) that "this would be too long" and "this would be too short." But I don't think it should be a major point of emphasis, or that we should be distressed because other believers don't agree with our own personal views. (Institutions like schools, the military, etc., of course, are justified in crafting dress/hair codes, but that's beside the point.) The bigger question is this: why are we so worried about what other people are doing?

Edited December 2, 2011 by Annie

[John81]

John, I did address your OP - asked a question...would you mind answering it? Perhaps you didn't see it...?

I'm sorry LuAnne, what's your question? If I check back after more than an hour or so clicking on the go to first unread post button sends me to the last post made, not the the first unread post. Sometimes I miss posts because of this.

[John81]

The very first sentence of the OP was about women serving in the church with short hair and how that somehow it's wrong. The entire premise of the OP was based upon an assumption that short hair is a sin, something the Bible never says.

Whether it's a sin or not, is such something that should be addressed because of the appearance others take from it? Like my leather jacket example, and how Suzy rightly pointed out, wearing a leather jacket itself isn't a sin, but if wearing such causes some to come to bad conclusions because of appearance, isn't it better for the sake of Christ that I put off my jacket preference in favor of what will be best for the kingdom of God?

[John81]

That is a really good post, heartstrings. "Long" and "short" are indeed defined by culture, as are expressions of masculinity and femininity. The point of this Scripture is that men and women should worship reverently, fulfilling their respective roles. Women who wear their hair like the men (shaved or shorn) are usurping the headship of those men. Paul calls us to "judge in ourselves." We are to make informed decisions based on our own culture's expressions of masculinity/femininity, not base our standards on a culture which is long gone. (I'm sure my husband would raise a few IFB eyebrows if he grew his hair out to the length of Wycliffe's or Jonathan Edwards' or Spurgeon's.)

The pictures that heartstrings posted are a reminder that not everyone has the same definitions of "long" and "short"...and because that is so, it would behoove us as believers not to judge one another based on our own personal definitions and ideas. That said, however, I think there's a point at which we can all agree (based on culture, really) that "this would be too long" and "this would be too short." But I don't think it should be a major point of emphasis, or that we should be distressed because other believers don't agree with our own personal views. (Institutions like schools, the military, etc., of course, are justified in crafting dress/hair codes, but that's beside the point.) The bigger question is this: why are we so worried about what other people are doing?

As I said in the beginning, this needn't be a discussion about determining a specific length. The question is, if the women in the churches hair is so short that folks think they are lesbians because of their "butch" hair, isn't that something that should be addressed?

Years ago there was a man who played in a heavy metal rock band who came to Christ. He had long hair and he kept his hair long for a year or two after coming to Christ. Finally he took the issue of people looking at him and what they were thinking because of his long hair to the Lord. After prayer and meditation on the issue he came to the conclusion it was a small sacrifice to make (cutting his hair short) for the One who paid the ultimate sacrifice for him.

[Brother Rick]

Whether it's a sin or not, is such something that should be addressed because of the appearance others take from it? Like my leather jacket example, and how Suzy rightly pointed out, wearing a leather jacket itself isn't a sin, but if wearing such causes some to come to bad conclusions because of appearance, isn't it better for the sake of Christ that I put off my jacket preference in favor of what will be best for the kingdom of God?

I see what you're saying now! Absolutely our appearance matters and every Christian should, with a heart of sincerity, ask the Lord what His will is concerning these things.

This is one of those things that demands spiritual maturity on both sides. One one end, the person who believes in her heart that her hair should be a certain length should obey what she believes God has told her to do. It is not her job to go around demanding that everyone else stick to the same standard that she does, because that specific standard isn't taught anywhere in the Bible.

But that's not where the spiritual maturity ends. The other person must be sincere and seek God's will concerning what He would have them to do. Many today get annoyed at people who are unbiblically pushing standards on others, but they themselves fail to actually seek God's will. They’re too busy calling other people Pharisees, and it hasn't dawned on them that they are Sadducees!

[Annie]

As I said in the beginning, this needn't be a discussion about determining a specific length. The question is, if the women in the churches hair is so short that folks think they are lesbians because of their "butch" hair, isn't that something that should be addressed?

Years ago there was a man who played in a heavy metal rock band who came to Christ. He had long hair and he kept his hair long for a year or two after coming to Christ. Finally he took the issue of people looking at him and what they were thinking because of his long hair to the Lord. After prayer and meditation on the issue he came to the conclusion it was a small sacrifice to make (cutting his hair short) for the One who paid the ultimate sacrifice for him.

I guess one question I would have is, who are the ones making the "snide comments" about "the dyke church" and thinking the women are lesbians...Are those people trying to impose their own personal ideas of "long" and "short" on others? Anyone making snide comments and calling other people names doesn't sound like a "Christian" to me. In your original post, you seemed to indicate that the problem of pastors' wives having really short hair is widespread. I think you said something to the effect of, "Why do so many pastors wives today have really short hair?" I guess I would have to see an example of what you're talking about, because, although many pastors' wives I know do have short hair, it's styled very becomingly and does not at all detract from their femininity. Not one pastor's wife that I know of looks like a "dyke" or a man. The actual length of the hair (as in inches) has little to do with that perception, IMO. A friend of mine a few years ago had her hair tapered in the back (I'm sure it was less than an inch long) and fuller on the top (like maybe an inch and a half long). She wore becoming earrings and feminine outfits, and had a cute pixie-ish face that was really "set off" by her short hairstyle. No one would ever have thought that this sweet lady was trying to be masculine or usurp her husband's authority in any way. But, yes, her hair style was definitely "short," just not at all "masculine."

Praise the Lord for the man you mentioned who cut his hair so that his testimony would be more effective.