What happened to the Roman Empire?

[ThePilgrim]

Undoubtedly some of you have read Gibbons "Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" as I have as well as some others.
Here is another possibility. A possibility that may show our empire's Future.
I do not speak for or against the article. I just offer it "as is" for those who don't mind a long read.

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/ugo-bardi/peak-civilization

God bless,
Larry

[Invicta]

The true ending of the Roman empire was when Constantine moved it to Byzantium.

Although there was a state called the western Roman Empire, I believe that it never ruled from Rome, but from Mila n or some other cities.

The move ove emperor and empire was prophecied in 2 Thess 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

[Salyan]

My understanding is that that passage refers to the Antichrist... why do you think it applies to Constantine, Invicta? :puzzled3:

[Invicta]

My understanding is that that passage refers to the Antichrist... why do you think it applies to Constantine, Invicta?

Paul told the believers that they knew what he was talking about because he had told them. The early christian writers with one accord told us that it refererred to the the end of the Roman Empire, which would allow the Antichrist to arise, the Papacy, who would never have been able to gain power if the Roman empire still existed.

[John81]

This is the folly of all empires, overextention. Added to that folly is the folly of doing everything to maintain the overextention rather than attempting to pull back to a more reasonable and maintainable position.

Some have warned of this in America, Patrick J. Buchanan being one who has been sounding the alarm for many years.

America is greatly overextended, and to use the analogy from the article, her military is everywhere draining huge amounts of money while bringing none in. America spends more on her military than the rest of the world combined. This is obviously unsustainable yet when someone raises the reasonable suggestions to pull back, reposition and develope a modern, feasible plan, there are shouts and cries that America must maintain her military presence everywhere in the world, must continue to increase the military budget, must police the world, there are cries of the dangers of "isolationism" and new bogey-men are held forth as reasons America must continue to drain her coffers in an attempt to control the world.

Recall that as recently as World War II the American people were called upon to sacrifice to help pay for that war and the enormous military build-up that accompanied it. Such is no longer the case. Look at the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq which were dealt with off the books and with no sacrifice for the people in general. Debt added to debt to prosecute and maintain these wars, plus the hundreds of other commitments around the world.

America is trillions of dollars in debt with no way to get out of that debt without making huge cuts in the size of the government. Who, besides Ron Paul, on the national leader stage is willing to take such steps? We all see the reaction Ron Paul gets from the establishment and even most supposed conservative Republicans.

So, we will continue to see America go down the same road as the Roman Empire and other Empires. America will continue to deny reality, tinker around the edges, declare their special status that will somehow see them rise again, marvel at the bad conditions all around while being unwilling to address them.

[heartstrings]

What caused the fall of the Roman Empire? It wasn't the Barbarian tribes. It was their moral decadence and the law of "sowing and reaping".

[ThePilgrim]

Yes, I suppose you could say Rome was incredibly morally decadent and that is true. You can also say they reaped what they had sewn and that is also true, but as a student of history I would also like to understand the mechanism which brought them down. Sodom and Gomorrah were also a morally decadent society which is long gone. They were brought down by a great downpour of fire and brimstone. We know that it is God who brought this end upon them because He tells us about it in the Bible. I believe it is God that brings all empires and civilizations to their end and ours will be no different. We know Rome was brought down by God but we must find out the mechanism for we know it was not fire and brimstone. What was it?

Why I study history is to learn how things were done along the way as well as the consequences.


Eccl 1:9-10

9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
KJV

A wise man once said that those who do not understand history are bound to repeat it. I would like to know what brought about things in the past so that I will be able to understand what it is I have to do to keep it from happening in the future. Only a fool or a lunatic keeps putting his hand into the fire once he has learned it burns him.

God bless,
Larry

[John81]

While various specifics may differ, the bottom line for all Empires is that they overextend themselves and then try to maintain that overextention. At some point costs begin to exceed benefits. From that point onward the Empire is doomed unless drastic measures are taken. As is common of man, there are only few (if any) in an Empire who will see what needs to be done and be willing to take such actions. The most common response is to make cosmetic changes, do what seems will make things appear better during for a time and leave the tough decisions to the next generation which will typically continue on the same course.

How much of the American Empire which is costing America billions each year are the results of what occured at the end of WWII and during the Cold War? Both of those wars are over, the real and potential threats from those eras are gone, yet America has bases and troops stationed around the world just as they did then. For the past twenty years calls to review America's actual defense needs so many foreign bases could be closed and troops brought home has met with denouncements and even hysterics. The very modern idea that America should be and must be the worlds policeman is something the government is unwilling to give up. Even realizing the burdensome cost of this, recent American governments have simply sought assistance and "coalitions" with others to maintain this overextended condition.

Will America prove wiser than all Empires before her? Not likely. Like latter Rome, America is becoming less a nation of Americans and more a nation of foreigners with no real allegiance to America or desire to be American. America is crumbling from within. The burdens from this, plus unsustainable debt needed to try and placate millions in America and dominate around the world will drive America down. A probable outcome will see America split into several new nations or seeing one or more sections joining with another nation. Mexico already considers Mexicans in America to be Mexicans who are reclaiming Mexican land. China has declared their view that Chinese in America and Canada are colonists laying the groundwork for China to claim the Pacific coast areas when these nations fall, as China sees coming.

The only real question is when will this happen and how rapidly. This could all take place in a matter of years, decades or by the century end. Some of us may see this happen, some may not.

The most important eternal question is what will Christians in America do?

[heartstrings]

"America" is not "God's people" and after some 235 years most likely never will be. Only the "born again, indwelled with the Holy Ghost" Americans are. But if America, the nation, finally turns her back on Israel, she is sunk for sure.

[ThePilgrim]

More on the cost of empire.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/nobel-prize-winning-economist-war-is-widely-thought-to-be-linked-to-economic-good-times-nonsense.html

God bless,
Larry

[John81]

More on the cost of empire. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/nobel-prize-winning-economist-war-is-widely-thought-to-be-linked-to-economic-good-times-nonsense.html God bless, Larry

This is, or should be, common sense. Unless the war brings in valuable resources it's going to be virtually all cost with no benefit financially.

Somehow today it's considered wrong to wage war to gain valuable resources but okay to wage war where valuable resources are wasted with no return.

In the not too distant future this will likely change and nations and people groups once again find it necessary to wage war for valuable resouces; such as oil, water, minerals, farmable land, etc.

[Brother Rick]

Great insight and comments brother John.