How 'bout you?

[rancher824]

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Interesting thread. In it I have noticed that pages being turned audibly is a good thing, but pushing buttons for the same purpose is a distraction. And that we need to rely on tradition, rather than going with modern conveniences. That if a man does not carry a "old black book" Bible rather than a electronic Bible that is also capable of doing other things, he is hiding his christianity. But if we want to rely on traditions, should not they be Bible based traditions? You will notice in the verses above that when Jesus went to the synagogue he did not bring the Bible or even the part of it that he would read with him. It was given to him to read, and then he returned it to its keeper. The closest way that I can think of to keep with this tradition would be for all churches to have the giant monitors up front with the verses on them that are being read. As far as temptations, I can say from a personal stance that even carrying my Bible can give a certain amount of temptation. I have seen times that in the sermon a point is made that brings up a question about something outside of the sermon. I think about a verse in that direction rather than the direction of the sermon. Now do I give in and chase the rabbit trail I have thought of, or do I stay with the sermon? If I give in and chase my rabbit, there will be the sound of turning pages. What a distraction!!! But if I had just had the monitor up front without a Bible in my hands I would not have had that temptation, nor become such a distraction. Now am I really against people bringing their Bibles to church? No. I am just pointing out that we have become a society of if I get distracted it is your fault. You should not be such a distraction. Now I realize the bible warns against being a stumbling block. But I am afraid we yell to much about "you" distracting, when it should be "I" being shore not to be distracted by. For instance I doubt many today could handle the one room churches of yesteryear where more than one class was going on in different parts of the room. To many distractions. As to the argument about finding a place in an "actual Bible", what is the difference? If they use their app mostly, they can find the place in it. They can also possibly find an exact verse they are thinking of but they nor you can say where that verse is. Can only quote a small part of it. What about if they do not have power? What about if the day comes when we can no longer purchase a paper copy? It is getting where there are more choices for MV than the KJV in book stores. They could always decide to no longer publish the KJV and then the Apps would be the most practicle. Also if they one day decided to outlaw the Bible it would be easier to hide a disk in a stack of disks that a paper copy in a book shelf. The day may come when the only copies we can find a way to have are electronic.

[JerryNumbers]

Interesting thread. In it I have noticed that pages being turned audibly is a good thing, but pushing buttons for the same purpose is a distraction. And that we need to rely on tradition, rather than going with modern conveniences. That if a man does not carry a "old black book" Bible rather than a electronic Bible that is also capable of doing other things, he is hiding his christianity. But if we want to rely on traditions, should not they be Bible based traditions? You will notice in the verses above that when Jesus went to the synagogue he did not bring the Bible or even the part of it that he would read with him. It was given to him to read, and then he returned it to its keeper. The closest way that I can think of to keep with this tradition would be for all churches to have the giant monitors up front with the verses on them that are being read. As far as temptations, I can say from a personal stance that even carrying my Bible can give a certain amount of temptation. I have seen times that in the sermon a point is made that brings up a question about something outside of the sermon. I think about a verse in that direction rather than the direction of the sermon. Now do I give in and chase the rabbit trail I have thought of, or do I stay with the sermon? If I give in and chase my rabbit, there will be the sound of turning pages. What a distraction!!! But if I had just had the monitor up front without a Bible in my hands I would not have had that temptation, nor become such a distraction. Now am I really against people bringing their Bibles to church? No. I am just pointing out that we have become a society of if I get distracted it is your fault. You should not be such a distraction. Now I realize the bible warns against being a stumbling block. But I am afraid we yell to much about "you" distracting, when it should be "I" being shore not to be distracted by. For instance I doubt many today could handle the one room churches of yesteryear where more than one class was going on in different parts of the room. To many distractions. As to the argument about finding a place in an "actual Bible", what is the difference? If they use their app mostly, they can find the place in it. They can also possibly find an exact verse they are thinking of but they nor you can say where that verse is. Can only quote a small part of it. What about if they do not have power? What about if the day comes when we can no longer purchase a paper copy? It is getting where there are more choices for MV than the KJV in book stores. They could always decide to no longer publish the KJV and then the Apps would be the most practicle. Also if they one day decided to outlaw the Bible it would be easier to hide a disk in a stack of disks that a paper copy in a book shelf. The day may come when the only copies we can find a way to have are electronic.

One room church of yesterday, been there, done that, back in the 90's, it was just great, no problem at all with three classes going at one time.



Why hide your Bible, your Christianity, in such times why not trust in God with all your heart and carry it openly? Yes, why not put as much faith in God as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego did?

Da 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
Da 3:17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

Let us let tomorrow take care of it self, let us deal with facts of today. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand, its quite easy for anyone in America to have a copy of the Bible.

[John81]

One room church of yesterday, been there, done that, back in the 90's, it was just great, no problem at all with three classes going at one time.



Why hide your Bible, your Christianity, in such times why not trust in God with all your heart and carry it openly? Yes, why not put as much faith in God as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego did?

Da 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
Da 3:17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

Let us let tomorrow take care of it self, let us deal with facts of today. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand, its quite easy for anyone in America to have a copy of the Bible.

It's also more likely that KJB apps would be shut down and/or halted before the KJB would go out of print. As well, even if the KJB went out of print, there are multiple millions of KJBs out there. If my whole family living anywhere near me were to come to Christ tomorrow I could supply them all with a KJB off my own shelves.

[rancher824]

One room church of yesterday, been there, done that, back in the 90's, it was just great, no problem at all with three classes going at one time.



Why hide your Bible, your Christianity, in such times why not trust in God with all your heart and carry it openly? Yes, why not put as much faith in God as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego did?

Da 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
Da 3:17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

Let us let tomorrow take care of it self, let us deal with facts of today. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand, its quite easy for anyone in America to have a copy of the Bible.

One room church church, three classes. My point exactly!!! It was great with three men (or women for the children, I don't know which) and no distractions. But one or even several men in the auditorium reading quietly their Bible on a cell phone is a distraction. We are choosing what we WANT to distract us. We are knit picking with rules that are not in the word, you know that Old Black Book. It says nothing about each person carrying a paper copy of the word with them everywhere they go. Psa 119:11 "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." Not "I carry a paper copy of thy word ". IF you have to have a paper copy under your arm so people can see you are a christian, you are not living right. They should see God's light shinning through your actions. Do I mean we should not have his word with us? No I am saying that our lives should reflect more than what we carry under our arms!!! Now before you say I am judging your life, I am doing nothing you are not when you say those who carry a Bible on a device such as a phone are trying to hide their christianity.
As to Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, Are you equating using a phone based Bible application to bowing before an Idol God???? WOW!!! That is a stretch. There is NOTHING in the Bible about not using a copy of the word that has something else connected to it. There is nothing in the word that every good christian must carry a paper copy of the word. But it does say not to have other god's and not to bow before idols. So I cannot see any comparison between the two.
As for the facts of today, they are that one choice of a way to carry a Bible is by way of a phone based app. There is no scripture against such, so we cannot condemn it. To look at the scripture the precedent is for the place of worship to house the word for the people to use when there. Not that a Godly man will have it under his arm. It is a good thing to carry a copy, but I see no difference between a paper copy and an electric copy.

[John81]

If you allow one person to use their cell phone for Bible apps then everyone must be allowed to use their cell phones and they won't all be using them for Bible apps.

[rancher824]

It's also more likely that KJB apps would be shut down and/or halted before the KJB would go out of print. As well, even if the KJB went out of print, there are multiple millions of KJBs out there. If my whole family living anywhere near me were to come to Christ tomorrow I could supply them all with a KJB off my own shelves.

As far as apps that connect to a web site to get content, you are possibly correct. As far as electric copies, I do not agree. My dad has a copy of the Bible that fits on a thumb drive that is designed to be used on a computer without leaving anything on the registry. It is made this way for countries that it is illegal (which could come to America before we know it) so that people could read the Bible but authorities not be able to detect it by looking at the computer. Things of this sort could easily outlast even a huge warehouse of paper copies it the govt came to take them. Thus making it possible for the electronic to outlast the paper.

[rancher824]

If you allow one person to use their cell phone for Bible apps then everyone must be allowed to use their cell phones and they won't all be using them for Bible apps.

So who is to police that everyone has their Bible turned to the right passage? I mean if a pastor is preaching on David and Goliath and someone is reading about king ahab they are not paying attention. We need to be sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to do. It is our job to make sure the person next to us is doing right, isn't it? Thus my reasoning for that we might go back to the Biblical model of the church providing the one copy to be used during worship. That way the man next to you will not be thumbing thru his Bible reading about Ahab while the pastor is in a sermon about David. Those rustling pages can be disturbing. And if you let one person bring a Bible you have to let them all, and they won't all be using them to stay with the sermon.
As a side note: I remember as a child looking at the dictionary in the back of my Bible during preaching time. Not to see what a word in the sermon meant, just to look. A distraction. Was I right in doing so? No! But I did. Does that mean we should not allow Bibles with dictionaries? No. We let things distract us. Such as the multiple classes in one room. If you really think about it there could be very little more distracting than that. But they got good messages, and did lots of good teaching that way.

[John81]

There is no need to police cell phone use. Just announce no cell phone use in the sanctuary and remind folks to have the ringer shut off. Our youth groups collect all cell phones when the youth come through the door and they retrieve them when youth group is finished.

[rancher824]

There is no need to police cell phone use. Just announce no cell phone use in the sanctuary and remind folks to have the ringer shut off. Our youth groups collect all cell phones when the youth come through the door and they retrieve them when youth group is finished.

But John, if you make a rule and announce that no cell phones are to be used, what about those who still "distract" by using their Bible app? A rule is of no use if it has no teeth. Now you may want to point out the rules in the Bible that we can preach, but cannot force to be obeyed. But at the same time we know who will enforce those rules, The Lord God himself. The man thumbing through his Bible during the sermon looking for things about ahab will answer to God for not being in the service mentally, as well as if his page rustling has distracted others. But at the same time the others will be held responsible for allowing him to distract them. But I cannot see a man being judged by God because he was reading his true Bible from off his phone rather than having a paper copy in his hands. I figure you will go in the direction of that he will answer to God for breaking the rules set forth by the church or by the pastor.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

But can you give me a verse that says either of these have the right to make rules that are not found within the pages of the Bible? I look at Romans 14. It speaks of those that are weak in the faith. Now look at it this way. You have a member that carries his Bible on a phone app everywhere he goes, including church. Now you know that a strong christian would have his paper copy in hand. Does God give you the right to tell your "weaker brother" not to use his Bible in church?? Does God give a pastor the right to announce to the congregation that the weaker brother is not allowed to use his Bible in church??? I realize the Bible says we are not to be a stumbling block before our brothers. And that is what you are saying the phone based app is. But as I have pointed out, even our Bibles in hand can be used for a stumbling block if used incorrectly.
Just a thought, I am not saying your church is right or wrong, but wondering about something. If a part of the youth group had something hanging that could call them out in an emergency type situation are they allowed to keep their phones? Here is the direction I am thinking. My wife is expecting, and is at 8 months. We have been warned since 25 weeks that she is showing signs of possibly going into preterm labor. There have been many service that I have had to leave her in bed at home, as I took our daughter to church. Now I keep my phone on, though I try to have it on vib, just in case she needs me. I could be called out at any moment. Now if my daughter were old enough to have a phone and we were in a large enough church to have a youth group it would be nice if I could give her a vibr. sign if I needed her to come out to meet me at the car to go. If this were the case, and I wanted her to have it on her so she could feel the vibr, would she be allowed, or would her phone be taken?

[JerryNumbers]

There is no need to police cell phone use. Just announce no cell phone use in the sanctuary and remind folks to have the ringer shut off. Our youth groups collect all cell phones when the youth come through the door and they retrieve them when youth group is finished.

John, One thing people hate, its rules, authority, and many will rebel using every excuse under the sun to disturb worship services in Jesus' Churches. Their only concern is self, with no consideration for those around them. Yet, they've been in Jesus' Churches forever.

[HappyChristian]

Why must people equate spirituality to opinion? I think it's silly to bring a phone with Bible app to church for use ~ but if it happens, it happens. To declare that someone who does is hiding his/her Christianity or flouting "authority" is being extrabiblical.

A pastor has the right to ask people to shut off phones, or at least put them on vib (but to order me [generic me] not to bring one to church at all is outside the realm of his authority). Maintaining an orderly service falls within his parameters...even if scripture doesn't delineate that (in much the same way a teacher maintains order in the classroom...and scripture doesn't delineate that, either). To assume, however, that someone who chooses to have a Bible app on their phone, or carry a kindle is hating "rules" and authority is reading into a situation that which is not necessarily so. And that would be called leaping to conclusions, normally.

Our youth pastor discourages our teens from having cell phones because of the messes so many teenagers have gotten themselves into with them. But that decision is actually up to the parents....but if the parents have no problem with the teens handing over their phones for the duration of a service, it works. I would think, in the example you gave, rancher, that if there were a problem going on where immediate access were needed, exceptions could (and likely would) be made.

[John81]

But John, if you make a rule and announce that no cell phones are to be used, what about those who still "distract" by using their Bible app? A rule is of no use if it has no teeth. Now you may want to point out the rules in the Bible that we can preach, but cannot force to be obeyed. But at the same time we know who will enforce those rules, The Lord God himself. The man thumbing through his Bible during the sermon looking for things about ahab will answer to God for not being in the service mentally, as well as if his page rustling has distracted others. But at the same time the others will be held responsible for allowing him to distract them. But I cannot see a man being judged by God because he was reading his true Bible from off his phone rather than having a paper copy in his hands. I figure you will go in the direction of that he will answer to God for breaking the rules set forth by the church or by the pastor. But can you give me a verse that says either of these have the right to make rules that are not found within the pages of the Bible? I look at Romans 14. It speaks of those that are weak in the faith. Now look at it this way. You have a member that carries his Bible on a phone app everywhere he goes, including church. Now you know that a strong christian would have his paper copy in hand. Does God give you the right to tell your "weaker brother" not to use his Bible in church?? Does God give a pastor the right to announce to the congregation that the weaker brother is not allowed to use his Bible in church??? I realize the Bible says we are not to be a stumbling block before our brothers. And that is what you are saying the phone based app is. But as I have pointed out, even our Bibles in hand can be used for a stumbling block if used incorrectly.
Just a thought, I am not saying your church is right or wrong, but wondering about something. If a part of the youth group had something hanging that could call them out in an emergency type situation are they allowed to keep their phones? Here is the direction I am thinking. My wife is expecting, and is at 8 months. We have been warned since 25 weeks that she is showing signs of possibly going into preterm labor. There have been many service that I have had to leave her in bed at home, as I took our daughter to church. Now I keep my phone on, though I try to have it on vib, just in case she needs me. I could be called out at any moment. Now if my daughter were old enough to have a phone and we were in a large enough church to have a youth group it would be nice if I could give her a vibr. sign if I needed her to come out to meet me at the car to go. If this were the case, and I wanted her to have it on her so she could feel the vibr, would she be allowed, or would her phone be taken?

Thankfully our congregation is willing to comply with such reasonable rules. We've had a longstanding rule of no cell phones to be used in church. There was and has been no rebellion, no need to police the matter. The most difficult aspect at the beginning was in getting a few folks to remember to cut their phone ringers off while in church.

We have emergency personel in our congregation and this rule has never been a problem. Some of them have pagers that will go off in case of emergency while others have cell phones set to vibrate. Again, we've never had a problem with this.

[Annie]

I haven't read all of the posts...Just thought I'd comment on the original question. Yesterday I forgot to grab my Bible in the process of getting five kids out the door with their instruments, music, etc., etc., etc. I was really bummed, but when I got to church, I remembered that I had my Kindle in my purse--yea!! So, that's what I used for church...and it worked out great. It is still more cumbersome (for me) than flipping through pages, but I can see how I could get faster at finding texts as I use it more. And, I enjoyed using the highlight feature as well as the note-taking capability. I was able to take great, detailed notes on the sermon...notes that are preserved all right there in the Kindle...no cumbersome notebook with pages falling out, no notes scrawled on the back of the bulletin that I'll lose by next week, no trying to cram notes into margins, etc.

As far as the topic goes...I don't think I was distracting anyone, but I could see how anything "new-fangled" could be distracting to some. If you know that someone will be distracted, I think it's wise to abstain. However, a pastor has no reason to "call someone down" for using a Bible app or a Kindle to read Scripture. That's just foolish. Also, it seems to me that talking or texting on a cell phone (activities which have nothing to do with worship and study) are worlds apart from reading Scripture on a cell phone or Kindle. People should feel free to use that option, especially as time marches on and electronic gadgets are ubiquitous.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Annie

[John81]

Avoid the appearance of evil.

Flee temptation.

Don't be a stumbling block.

Set aside that which could harm weaker brothers/sisters.


All biblical precepts which apply to cell phones in church.

[Annie]

Flee temptation.

Don't be a stumbling block.

Set aside that which could harm weaker brothers/sisters.


All biblical precepts which apply to cell phones in church.

Amen! And the application(s) of these precepts differ widely depending on a number of factors, including, but not limited to..maturity of the user, susceptibility of others around him, and saturation of technology (do most people in the church use this kind of thing, or does no one else?).

Case in point: My husband needed to get a message to our pastor during Sunday school. The pastor was sitting far away on the other side of the church, and it would have been far more distracting to get up, walk over, tap the pastor on the shoulder, and whisper in his ear, or even hand him a note. Same with passing a note. This is an example of how texting used responsibly by mature Christians can actually help to avoid distracting others. It's not like either my husband or our pastor are sitting there texting people for the sake of amusement, or to do business. As far as I know, this was the one and only time they ever communicated in this way during Sunday school or a church service. Now, if this became the main way that people communicated messages to the pastor (texting during Sunday school), then that would definitely be a problem.

Another time cell phones can be immeasurably useful during church is when a person is 'on call.' There's a midwife in our church who would not be able to attend certain Sunday services at all if she could not have her cell phone with her, as she is on call for unpredictable medical situations, like the delivery of a baby. She'd have to sit at home and miss out on the worship service...and what a waste that would be if she wasn't called in! The fact that this dear lady, dressed in her medical scrubs, has a cell phone with her in church makes no one stumble. Rather, she is to be admired for making church a priority. Same with the two doctors that attend our church, and others whose employment demands such availability.

I have heard of churches which have implemented a system in which parents are paged on their cell phones when their child needs them in the nursery...sure beats those big ol' distracting digital red number boards..."Hmmm...I wonder who #46 is today...That baby is sure acting up!" And sure saves money when the church doesn't have to invest in a "restaurant buzzer" system.

Not to mention that emergencies do happen...and that cell phones are great for that, too. What is more distracting: to have the church office phone ring loudly (and have to have someone manning it during the service), and someone enter to hand someone an urgent message, or simply to receive that information on one's cell phone? My vote: the former.

I'm not saying that "anything goes" with cell phones. Surely they should be on 'vibrate' during a service. And (at least in our case), really everyone we're close to is in church around the same time we are...or at least know that we are in church and won't be paying attention to just any text/call that comes our way. We don't get a lot of calls and messages during church for that reason alone. Edited February 8, 2011 by Annie