EDITED: Where is my church going??

[HappyChristian]

I'm still one of those who have not read any Rick Warren books. I don't plan to either. I have plenty other books to read.

Yeah, I am definitely not interested in wasting my time with his books...there are so many good books out there just waiting for me!!! :Green

[Guest Guest]

[quote="HappyChristian"]If we wash our minds properly with the water of the Word, we may be able to handle books like this. [b]But I know personally people who have been derailed in their Christianity because of books they've read.[/b] Yes, I guess we could assume they were weak Christians before they read those books. [b]But we would all behoove ourselves if we remember "mine eye affecteth mine heart."
[/b][/quote]

:goodpost: HC! I have known many, too. My SIL, for example? Her grandmother is into watching "Benny Hill." :eek My SIL is IFB, but I have known her to give me books before that I would not recommend to other Christians, much less a lost person. Something tells me (in my heart of hearts) to tell her what I have heard about this book. She has appreciated advice in the past about books and movies, anyway. Again...I need to "guard my heart."

"mine eye affecteth mine heart." :amen:

[b]Colossians 3:22-24[/b]...22 Servants obey in all things [i]your[/i] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness (sincerity) of heart, fearing God: 23 And whatseover ye do, do [i]it[/i] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. [i] "Continue in Prayer"[/i] [b] KJV 1611 AV.[/b]

[futurehope]

Thank you all for your posts thus far. I probably should have titled this something more like "Where is my church headed", but "The Shack" is just the straw that broke the camels back with me.

My concerns have been accumulated throughout the past year or so, and I have brought them to my pastor as they have come up. One of these concerns is sticking to the KJV. I found out that some of the teachers were teaching from the NIV or CEV (the pastors wife is one of them, and has always done a great job teaching the youth). When I brought my concern to him and asked if I should council with the teachers and remind them that we should be using only the KJV, his response was this: Well, we should be sticking to the KJV only, but some people gain from the other versions, and we are smart enough to discern what parts are inaccurate.

Now, that's not a quote, obviously, but kind of a summary of what he said. Then, as I mentioned, he allowed the NIV to be preached from. The same man that preached the message has been teaching the young adult class (which the pastor sits in on every week). This man's teaching seems to focus on his own pride and looking down at the members of the class more than anything and I had heard several complaints. So, I went to the pastor to discuss it with him and he agreed with me that this man was not serving as a good teacher for our church. He even added some of his own complaints about the gentleman. Then he made a comment about the man really enjoying teaching and feeling like it is his part and he has continued to allow this man to teach.

These are some of the bigger things, but there have been other small things that have caught my attention, and it just seems as though he is adopting this new idea of acceptance towards a lot of things we shouldn't.

This all said, I love my pastor dearly. Having not grown up with a godly father, he filled that role for me during my adolescent years and taught me how to study God's word and discern truth. Even to this day, I call him and his wife dad and mom.

So, please know, this is not me just complaining about an old pastor. This is me asking for prayers and guidance, because these things are really weighing on my heart. This church and especially this man and his family are my family and it troubles me greatly to think that the man who taught me to be fundamentally sound would lead the church astray.

Should I take my concerns to the deacons and elders and risk harming this relationship. Or should I not take my concerns and risk seeing our church move away from the fundamentals just a little at a time.

Thanks for your prayers and comments

Futurehope

[Guest Guest]

[quote="futurehope"][b]This all said, I love my pastor dearly. Having not grown up with a godly father, he filled that role for me during my adolescent years and taught me how to study God's word and discern truth. Even to this day, I call him and his wife dad and mom.[/b] [color=#0000FF] Oh...future, this is heartbreaking. I have a man in the church "whom" I call dad, too.
[/color]
So, please know, this is not me just complaining about an old pastor. [b]This is me asking for prayers and guidance, because these things are really weighing on my heart. This church and especially this man and his family are my family and it troubles me greatly to think that the man who taught me to be fundamentally sound would lead the church astray.[/b] [color=#0000FF] I am a woman, so I will say it. Could it be that his wife is the "influential" one with this issue? Many great men of God have fallen due to a wife.[/color]

[b]Should I take my concerns to the deacons and elders and risk harming this relationship.[/b] Or should I not take my concerns and risk seeing our church move away from the fundamentals just a little at a time. I really can't tell you that. [color=#0000FF]Only you (your conscience) knows the answer to that one. This is certainly a very difficult situation. Maybe, an IFB pastor can help you? PM...you know?
[/color]

[b]Thanks for your prayers and comments[/b] [color=#0000FF] Not a problem. That is what we are here for, futurehope. [/color] :Bible: :pray

Futurehope[/quote]

[Will]

The Shack is emergent garbage. I wouldn't line the parrot cage with it.

[Guest Guest]

Oh...Will, you always crack me up. :lol: How are you?

[Will]

[quote="candlelight"]Oh...Will, you always crack me up. :lol: How are you?[/quote]

I'm doing just fine. And you?

[Guest Guest]

Excellent! I am doing "just fine" too. :-)

[PreacherE]

[quote="futurehope"]So, please know, this is not me just complaining about an old pastor. This is me asking for prayers and guidance, because these things are really weighing on my heart. This church and especially this man and his family are my family and it troubles me greatly to think that the man who taught me to be fundamentally sound would lead the church astray.

Should I take my concerns to the deacons and elders and risk harming this relationship. Or should I not take my concerns and risk seeing our church move away from the fundamentals just a little at a time.

Thanks for your prayers and comments

Futurehope[/quote]

Summer of last year I was faced with a similar predicament of things going on within the church that should not have been going on, so I know a little of what you are going through. The first thing to do, which I am sure you know, is to bathe your situation in prayer. It wouldn't hurt to also do a little fasting along with your praying.

If you have some deacons and elders within the church that will listen and take action then I suggest taking it to them so it can be confronted. However, I must tell you, be prepared to stand alone in your convictions. I had to with the situation that happened at my old church. If nothing can be done then pray that God would lead you to the church of His choice. I'm thankful that God led us to a church where we have had more liberty to worship and serve Christ then we ever did at our old church.

Know that my prayers will be with you as you go through this.

In Christ,
PreacherE

[JerryNumbers]

Sad to say with each new year many more will probably be put in similar predicaments. For they be many who are trying to tear our churches down and get us to accept most any kind of teachings.

I recall reading not all that long ago where 2 Baptist Churches were compactly torn apart one by a pastor who lied to get his position who turned out to be a homosexual and another pastor who turned out of be Pentecostal.

The homosexuals won out on one of the churches and took it over with the other leaving to start another Baptist Church. The Pentecostal he divided the church and took over half the congregation with him.

We really never know when it will hit ours, we have to be diligent.

[Guest Guest]

We really never know when it will hit ours, we have to be diligent.

:amen:

[blossom]

Thank you all for your posts thus far. I probably should have titled this something more like "Where is my church headed", but "The Shack" is just the straw that broke the camels back with me.

My concerns have been accumulated throughout the past year or so, and I have brought them to my pastor as they have come up. One of these concerns is sticking to the KJV. I found out that some of the teachers were teaching from the NIV or CEV (the pastors wife is one of them, and has always done a great job teaching the youth). When I brought my concern to him and asked if I should council with the teachers and remind them that we should be using only the KJV, his response was this: Well, we should be sticking to the KJV only, but some people gain from the other versions, and we are smart enough to discern what parts are inaccurate.

Now, that's not a quote, obviously, but kind of a summary of what he said. Then, as I mentioned, he allowed the NIV to be preached from. The same man that preached the message has been teaching the young adult class (which the pastor sits in on every week). This man's teaching seems to focus on his own pride and looking down at the members of the class more than anything and I had heard several complaints. So, I went to the pastor to discuss it with him and he agreed with me that this man was not serving as a good teacher for our church. He even added some of his own complaints about the gentleman. Then he made a comment about the man really enjoying teaching and feeling like it is his part and he has continued to allow this man to teach.

These are some of the bigger things, but there have been other small things that have caught my attention, and it just seems as though he is adopting this new idea of acceptance towards a lot of things we shouldn't.

This all said, I love my pastor dearly. Having not grown up with a godly father, he filled that role for me during my adolescent years and taught me how to study God's word and discern truth. Even to this day, I call him and his wife dad and mom.

So, please know, this is not me just complaining about an old pastor. This is me asking for prayers and guidance, because these things are really weighing on my heart. This church and especially this man and his family are my family and it troubles me greatly to think that the man who taught me to be fundamentally sound would lead the church astray.

Should I take my concerns to the deacons and elders and risk harming this relationship. Or should I not take my concerns and risk seeing our church move away from the fundamentals just a little at a time.

Thanks for your prayers and comments

Futurehope

Futurehope I will be earnestly praying for you. My husband and I have just been through this. My heart goes out to you. I'm sad to say that these circumstances are becoming the norm in today's churches. You must be prepared to stand alone and lean heavily on God. I can't wait for the Lord to return. How much more must he be grieved to see faithful men falling into such wickedness. We spoke out. We went to the Pastors and to some of the elders in the church. Some people came to us over their concerns but would not speak up and so the slippery slide has started and continues. We moved to another small faithful Independent church. Although we are sadden by the events it is such a relief to sit in church on Sunday and not come out angry over things that should not be happening. We've grown in the Lord and it has been such a blessing to be under the preaching of a faithful man of God.


You'll be in our prayers.

P.S. I don't know if you have family, but this will be affecting them and they are among the first things to be considered.

[futurehope]

Futurehope I will be earnestly praying for you. My husband and I have just been through this. My heart goes out to you. I'm sad to say that these circumstances are becoming the norm in today's churches. You must be prepared to stand alone and lean heavily on God. I can't wait for the Lord to return. How much more must he be grieved to see faithful men falling into such wickedness. We spoke out. We went to the Pastors and to some of the elders in the church. Some people came to us over their concerns but would not speak up and so the slippery slide has started and continues. We moved to another small faithful Independent church. Although we are sadden by the events it is such a relief to sit in church on Sunday and not come out angry over things that should not be happening. We've grown in the Lord and it has been such a blessing to be under the preaching of a faithful man of God.


You'll be in our prayers.

P.S. I don't know if you have family, but this will be affecting them and they are among the first things to be considered.

Thank you Blossom, and all of you who have posted.

My biggest concern is splitting the church. I know that some of the elders and deacons don't agree with these practices. We don't actually have an ordained position for an associate pastor or a youth pastor, but that is the role that I share with my best friend of several years who just happens to be the pastor's son (biological). So it's not as though I am a member that can just up and leave. I work closely with the core of the church and this is the only reason I am aware of some of the things that most are not. One of the problems that has been growing (especially since we finished our new building a few years ago) is that the active young adults who work with the youth programs and Sunday School have little respect and almost no fellowship with the elders. It's almost like the old saying: "off with the old and on with the new". I know that that is where much of the root of these problems began: lack of the seeking and giving of guidance by the wisest in the church. Instead, the younger ones just want to take the bull by the horns and do it their way. I know this isn't really a surprise to most of you that have seen how satan tears churches apart, but please do continue in prayer for me and my church.

Thanks for the last part of your post, Blossom. The area of my family has been at the front of my mind as we love all these people in our church very dearly.

[blossom]

Thank you Blossom, and all of you who have posted.

My biggest concern is splitting the church. I know that some of the elders and deacons don't agree with these practices. We don't actually have an ordained position for an associate pastor or a youth pastor, but that is the role that I share with my best friend of several years who just happens to be the pastor's son (biological). So it's not as though I am a member that can just up and leave. I work closely with the core of the church and this is the only reason I am aware of some of the things that most are not. One of the problems that has been growing (especially since we finished our new building a few years ago) is that the active young adults who work with the youth programs and Sunday School have little respect and almost no fellowship with the elders. It's almost like the old saying: "off with the old and on with the new". I know that that is where much of the root of these problems began: lack of the seeking and giving of guidance by the wisest in the church. Instead, the younger ones just want to take the bull by the horns and do it their way. I know this isn't really a surprise to most of you that have seen how satan tears churches apart, but please do continue in prayer for me and my church.

Thanks for the last part of your post, Blossom. The area of my family has been at the front of my mind as we love all these people in our church very dearly.

We too were heavily involved, our brother in law is one of three Pastors and father-in-law a deacon. There is more but no point in telling all. Every situation is different. We seeked counsel from a respected Pastor, He advised us to stick with the beseeching of the leadership to do the right thing until it was to the point of dividing the Church. He said at that point rather than split the church it is best to leave. Once the Pastors told us a KJV only stance will not be tolerated, that we could not when asked to state our belief in the KJV we decided it was best to leave.

I will be praying that the Lord will give you peace about what you have to do. :pray

I think the valleys of life is when the potter moulds the clay the most. Be of good cheer. The Lord already knows the end of this situation. (Of little comfort maybe but you will look back and see his plan for you and your family)

Your sister in Christ

[Guest Guest]

First ,anything we are reading, watching, listening to should be helping us grow in the Lord NOT just we may be smart enough to know the truth vs, the lies!! Secondly, your church situation for me would diffinately cause concern...especially the NIV from the pulpit. Did he preach the entire sermon from it or did he quote it as well as the KJV as a reference on par with the KJV? Maybe I shouldn't say this...so I won't. I will only say what you know is the truth. If you know your church is beginning to take wrong stands based on His word...you take all the proper steps and go to the pastor etc. If the NIV has crept into the church,etc. Then you know the Lord doesn't mean for you to pastor there! You always take a clear stand from everything I read so will you start wavering now? Maybe there just needs to be some Bibical confrountation...but maybe theres more. Just make sure you Pastor where the Lord would have you Pastor!! He is all that matters! In prayer for you Futurehope ,your church and your family. I hope I didn't anger you but I know from experience this is one area you can hold on and on praying it'll get better and another year will pass with the same thing's happening.May the LORD give you HIS wisdom in how to handle this entire situation! Your sister in Christ's -only meant with loving concern-pixiedust :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray