Is this really church?

[John81]

John, The prOBlem is many of them are convinced that they're right, especially when trying to place everyone under 'one big church.'

True, but we know Scripture says differently. Paul went about establishing local churches and helping to ensure they had proper pastors. Other true followers of Christ elsewhere were their brothers and sisters in Christ and in times of need they would send aid, but each local church was autonomous.

[heartstrings]

John, The prOBlem is many of them are convinced that they're right, especially when trying to place everyone under 'one big church.'

Every born again, bloodwashed believer on the planet is part of the church....the body of Christ. But in order to have a church you must have an assembly of believers. At the present time, the church cannot physically assemble on this earth. We will when Jesus comes back but not until then. Right now, the only way to have church is the local church. It is impossible to do it any other way. The Catholic "church" is not a church at all and it's not even Christian anyway. Actually, a person can be a member of a sound local church and still not be a member of the church, because you have to be born again to be a member of the church

What this man (Chan)seems to be saying is that what most people call "church", is to meet three times a week, sing a couple of songs and a special or two, listen to a sermon, shake hands and go home. He's saying that a true local church is an assembly of Spirit filled believers with unity and genuine love for one another, having compassion for the lost, praying together, denying themselves, seeing to the needs of others and going out and spreading the gospel, like they did in Acts 2:41-47

[JerryNumbers]

Every born again, bloodwashed believer on the planet is part of the church....the body of Christ. But in order to have a church you must have an assembly of believers. At the present time, the church cannot physically assemble on this earth. We will when Jesus comes back but not until then. Right now, the only way to have church is the local church. It is impossible to do it any other way. The Catholic "church" is not a church at all and it's not even Christian anyway. Actually, a person can be a member of a sound local church and still not be a member of the church, because you have to be born again to be a member of the church

What this man (Chan)seems to be saying is that what most people call "church", is to meet three times a week, sing a couple of songs and a special or two, listen to a sermon, shake hands and go home. He's saying that a true local church is an assembly of Spirit filled believers with unity and genuine love for one another, having compassion for the lost, praying together, denying themselves, seeing to the needs of others and going out and spreading the gospel, like they did in Acts 2:41-47

No, every born again believe is not a member of one of Jesus Churches. Only those who have truly followed Jesus, those who have been saved, yet refuse to follow Jesus in baptism, they are not a member of one of Jesus Churches. They're not even following Jesus, but from afar. I might add, I'm not saying they are not saved, only that they are not members of one of His local churches.

Check it out, that is study it, within the pages of the Bible, all who Jesus called out when assembling His church were baptized believers, there were NO un-baptized within it.

[heartstrings]

No, every born again believe is not a member of one of Jesus Churches. Only those who have truly followed Jesus, those who have been saved, yet refuse to follow Jesus in baptism, they are not a member of one of Jesus Churches. They're not even following Jesus, but from afar. I might add, I'm not saying they are not saved, only that they are not members of one of His local churches.

Check it out, that is study it, within the pages of the Bible, all who Jesus called out when assembling His church were baptized believers, there were NO un-baptized within it.

No...and I never said they were did I? Please read what I wrote before you make your reply.
Thanks
And who said anything about baptism? I didn't.
Every born again believer has the indwelling Holy Spirit and IS part of "THE church": THE body of Christ.
And the thief on the cross wasn't baptized but he's still a part of it too. He IS alive BTW.
Yes, I'm sure alot of saved people are out of church; so they're no a member of a local church as they should be.

all who Jesus called out when assembling His church were baptized believers, there were NO un-baptized within it

Can you show me the chapter and verse?

[Brother Rick]

I think these verses and this article might be relevant to this discussion. If you're in the body of Christ you're in the church, plain and simple.

Eph. 1: 22-23, And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Col. 1:18, "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."


The Chain That Breaks the Baptist Bride Doctrine

Edited August 30, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[JerryNumbers]

No...and I never said they were did I? Please read what I wrote before you make your reply.
Thanks
And who said anything about baptism? I didn't.
Every born again believer has the indwelling Holy Spirit and IS part of "THE church": THE body of Christ.
And the thief on the cross wasn't baptized but he's still a part of it too. He IS alive BTW.
Yes, I'm sure alot of saved people are out of church; so they're no a member of a local church as they should be.

Can you show me the chapter and verse?

No, when a person is saved that does not put them in one of Jesus' Churches, to be in one of Jesus' Churches the believe must be baptized, that is the 1st step of OBedience the believer can make after they have been saved, after these two steps they become a member of one of Jesus' Churches, that is as long as they have been baptized by one of Jesus' local churches that has authority to baptize. And no, false teachers, and false teaching churches do not have NO authority from God.

Study it out in the Bible, only scripturally baptized believers be members of Jesus Churches.

And no, I am not saying that a person has to be a member of a church in order to be saved and have the promise of heaven, so please, don't read that into my post.

And no, I am not saying a person has to be baptized to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit enters a person at the moment they put their trust in Jesus.

There is no 'the church,' There is only local churches, 'the church' is of the Roman Catholics, and our Savior, Jesus, has not one thing to do with them.

[heartstrings]

No, when a person is saved that does not put them in one of Jesus' Churches, to be in one of Jesus' Churches the believe must be baptized, that is the 1st step of OBedience the believer can make after they have been saved, after these two steps they become a member of one of Jesus' Churches, that is as long as they have been baptized by one of Jesus' local churches that has authority to baptize. And no, false teachers, and false teaching churches do not have NO authority from God.

Study it out in the Bible, only scripturally baptized believers be members of Jesus Churches.

And no, I am not saying that a person has to be a member of a church in order to be saved and have the promise of heaven, so please, don't read that into my post.

And no, I am not saying a person has to be baptized to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit enters a person at the moment they put their trust in Jesus.

There is no 'the church,' There is only local churches, 'the church' is of the Roman Catholics, and our Savior, Jesus, has not one thing to do with them.

Sir, I never said that salvation puts a person in "one of Jesus' churches"; I'm saying that salvation puts a person in the body of Christ, which IS "the church" . Butthe church cannot meet yet until Jesus comes back. Do you understand what I'm saying now? Yes, I agree, you must be baptised into a local church, to be a member of a local church. I never disputed that.
And I've already told you that the Catholic church is NOT a church or the church...they are a false religion.

[trc123]

Sir, I never said that salvation puts a person in "one of Jesus' churches"; I'm saying that salvation puts a person in the body of Christ, which IS "the church" . Butthe church cannot meet yet until Jesus comes back. Do you understand what I'm saying now? Yes, I agree, you must be baptised into a local church, to be a member of a local church. I never disputed that.
And I've already told you that the Catholic church is NOT a church or the church...they are a false religion.

Save your effort!

[John81]

How about a bit of patience and love here.

Jerry has stated that all who are biblically born again in Christ are brothers and sisters in Christ, we are all of the Body of Christ that will one day be with Christ forever.

The term "the church" has been much abused, for centuries, that one needs to be very cautious as to its use. Often it's much better not to use that term so as not to confuse what is being spoken of as even when using Scripture with this, these verses themselves have been greatly abused by the RCC and others so that often much explanation and discussion is needed to reach the point.

Referring to the overall Body of Christ, all true believers, as "the church" can be biblically accurate if carefully put in the proper context but such does toss open the doors to controversy and debates better to avoid.

You and Jerry are, or have, said the same thing but using different terms. Is there really a need to argue that we must agree to use the term "the church" when referring to all believers when we have the common ground of agreeing that all true believers are our brothers and sisters in Christ and we will all one day be forever with the Lord?

[DennisD]

I agree, I just view the biblical church membership or participation as different from the modern church's concept of membership. Today's concept is more like a club membership rather than the biblical model which is participating in each others' needs like a family.

Maybe you've seen the wrong types of Churches as your example. Our church is a family. My pastor gave me one of his cars when my car broke down. He didn't let me borrow it, he gave it to me. We take turns cleaning, watching children, teaching children just as a large family might do. If someone has a need, it is provided because we love eachother.

[John81]

Maybe you've seen the wrong types of Churches as your example. Our church is a family. My pastor gave me one of his cars when my car broke down. He didn't let me borrow it, he gave it to me. We take turns cleaning, watching children, teaching children just as a large family might do. If someone has a need, it is provided because we love eachother.

That's as it should be. Our church has helped with some peoples medical expenses, built a wheelchair ramp for a member hurt in an accident, given money and goods to members in need, etc.

I recall one year an elderly lady from our church who no longer had any family around was unable to get the leaves in her yard raked. Our pastor sent out an email asking for help for this lady and volunteers showed up and raked her leaves and hauled them away.

[anime4christ]

I agree Dennis and John. That is pretty much what I am saying. What I mean by the modern concept of church membership can be seen in the majority of today's so called churches though; I don't think anyone disagrees with me on that, do they?

[John81]

I agree Dennis and John. That is pretty much what I am saying. What I mean by the modern concept of church membership can be seen in the majority of today's so called churches though; I don't think anyone disagrees with me on that, do they?

It's a sad fact a great many churches are nothing more than "meet, greet and retreat" or like an exclusive society club.

True New Testament churches seem to be rather few and sometimes far between.

[trc123]

It's a sad fact a great many churches are nothing more than "meet, greet and retreat" or like an exclusive society club.

True New Testament churches seem to be rather few and sometimes far between.

I agree with this. I would add that many fundamental Baptist churches make fun of or denounce the RCC (and others) for all of their extra-biblical traditions and rituals, while in fact they (IFBs) have many many of their own and don't even realize it......

[Brother Rick]

There is no 'the church,' There is only local churches, 'the church' is of the Roman Catholics, and our Savior, Jesus, has not one thing to do with them.

Eph. 1: 22-23, And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Col. 1:18, "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

I already put these verses back in post #50, with a link to an article with several more verses that demonstrate that those who are saved in in "the church".

Matt. 16:18, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

If Jesus was talking about the local church, there's so many prOBlems....

First of all, everytime a Bible believing church shuts down, for whatever reason, then the gates of Hell have prevailed against it.

Everytime a Bible believing local church that was right at one point and becomes liberal, then the gates of Hell have prevailed against it.

Everytime a Bible believing local church get shut down by persecution, then the gates of Hell have prevailed against it.

God promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His church, singular, not plural.

There's no way He was talking about the local church. Edited August 31, 2010 by Rick Schworer