Muslim Girl fighting family in court

[JerryNumbers]

Good post.

From what I've read and heard of this the girl has never been threatened and it was her Christian friends which brought up the idea that radical Muslims might want to harm her and since the mosque her parents attend have said some radical things that means her parents might want to kill her. Talk about a lot of speculation coupled with feeding a young girl with fear and turning her from her parents.

If this girl is in Christ then she is under His protection and unless God were to allow her to be martyed for His glory and honour no one could touch her.

Let me ask this hypothetical question.

If these parents had stated clearly, "When she comes home we will kill her because she converted to Christianity," would you them want to send her home?

That would be difficult.

I recall reading a story about a young Islam boy, he converted to Christianity them when he got home told him parents and the carried him before the community, after he refused to denounce Christiansty he was rocked to death.

Someone choosing to go back to their Islam's parents of their own knowing what they may face would be different than sending them back not knowing what will happen.

[John81]

Threatening to kill someone is illegal. I wouldn't recommend anyone go into a home where those who live there say they will kill them.

Regarding the person who was stoned for coming to Christ...Scripture tells us that to be martyred for Christ is a blessing. While it's a terrible thing to behold or consider, the fact is this person experienced the joy of going from this wicked world into the presence of Jesus. Along with this, this person left a pointed testimony to his faith that God will use against them in the end if they never come to Christ.

God's ways are not our ways and He sees the beginning from the end. Sometimes it's a part of God's plan for His people to be martyered. Scripture makes it clear that if we follow Christ we will suffer persecution. For some, that persecution may include the ultimate in persecution, death.

[JerryNumbers]

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 7:57-60 (KJV)


20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
Acts 22:20 (KJV)

This subject bring to mind Stephen.

[futurehope]

Let me ask this hypothetical question.

If these parents had stated clearly, "When she comes home we will kill her because she converted to Christianity," would you them want to send her home?

That would be difficult.

I recall reading a story about a young Islam boy, he converted to Christianity them when he got home told him parents and the carried him before the community, after he refused to denounce Christiansty he was rocked to death.

Someone choosing to go back to their Islam's parents of their own knowing what they may face would be different than sending them back not knowing what will happen.

You bring a difficult question Jerry. OBviously, it is my first thought to say no. However, I have to look also at what John said concerning the protection of God being over her and to tust in Him. At the same time, you must remember we are not to tempt Him or we (if we were the ones making the decision) could be putting her blood on our own hands. My choice, if this threat had actually been made (and it hasn't), would be to have her parents tried for this offense and appoint the girl to state custody.

[RayJr]

If a child is truely in mortal danger, now i don't know if thats the case with this family. How would you feel about anyone stepping in to help that child.. While I agree that the government oversteps its bounds frequently in the parent child situations. There are actual times when the child needs to be removed from that situation. Its not an easy question when you see someone that could possibly be harmed for there belief in Christ, but then again I agree that if she is not in mortal, or physical danger she should return to her family, she could actually be the tool God will use to reach them. Any way you look at it its not any easy question to answer because there are so many variables that we just don't know the answers to. just my 2cents

[JerryNumbers]

futurehope & Ray, I know its a very hard question.

Such a situation would be extremely hard to be in, and one I hope I'm never in, but if I do I surely hope and pray that I will use wisdom from above.

We've had many situations where the government has interfered between child and parents. One thing most of us lack on each incdent is the whole truth of the situation yet we are quick to take the sides of the parents and say the goverment has no rights to get invloced between parent and child.

In most situations of this type when abuse is invloved the guardians or parents will try thier bes to portray their self as great parents while trying to portray the government as evil.

Imagine what it would be like to be a young child who has guardians or parents that abuse them and no one to help and or no one will help them.

No doubt in 2009 we do have parents who lack natural affection for their very own children and treat them horrible and some of them are in danger.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disOBedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disOBedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

[Psalms18_28]

The girl now says they are want to do an arrange marriage for her. I don't know if that's the truth or not, but we do know there were a few honor killing that happened here in the US. If she is truly a christian, she should not be making up lies about her parents threatening her.

Although, I can picture her parents giving her a hard time about being a christian and such.

[amblivion]

First of all, I am going to state that the lack of evidence does not mean her parents do not have bad intentions. While I do not know her parents intentions, I do know that in the past as stated there have been honor killings in the United States. Because of the hefty accusations made and some of the muslims population's track record, the courts must take Rafiq seriously. If the courts did not take her accusations seriously and made her go back home, and she was later murdered, whose blood would her hands be on? I believe we would all be quick to judge the court system for not doing their duty in protecting her.

Second of all, I think we are all too quick to judge our fellow sister in Christ. Instead of telling our opinions of what we think she should be doing, we should be praying for God to give her the wisdom and courage to do what He wants. I am not living Rafiq's life, and I have never been in her situation. I believe it is not my place to judge her and her walk with God but rather to lift her up in my prayers. As a sister in Christ my heart goes out for her.

[futurehope]

Please don't take offense here amblivion, but it seems to me you were awful quick to throw the term "judge" around when none of us are judging her. However, we have a duty as Christians to discern right from wrong and undermining and disOBeying authority is not usually God's way of working.

[RayJr]

futurehope & Ray, I know its a very hard question.

Such a situation would be extremely hard to be in, and one I hope I'm never in, but if I do I surely hope and pray that I will use wisdom from above.

We've had many situations where the government has interfered between child and parents. One thing most of us lack on each incdent is the whole truth of the situation yet we are quick to take the sides of the parents and say the goverment has no rights to get invloced between parent and child.

In most situations of this type when abuse is invloved the guardians or parents will try thier bes to portray their self as great parents while trying to portray the government as evil.

Imagine what it would be like to be a young child who has guardians or parents that abuse them and no one to help and or no one will help them.

No doubt in 2009 we do have parents who lack natural affection for their very own children and treat them horrible and some of them are in danger.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disOBedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disOBedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Good post

[JerryNumbers]

First of all, I am going to state that the lack of evidence does not mean her parents do not have bad intentions. While I do not know her parents intentions, I do know that in the past as stated there have been honor killings in the United States. Because of the hefty accusations made and some of the muslims population's track record, the courts must take Rafiq seriously. If the courts did not take her accusations seriously and made her go back home, and she was later murdered, whose blood would her hands be on? I believe we would all be quick to judge the court system for not doing their duty in protecting her.

Second of all, I think we are all too quick to judge our fellow sister in Christ. Instead of telling our opinions of what we think she should be doing, we should be praying for God to give her the wisdom and courage to do what He wants. I am not living Rafiq's life, and I have never been in her situation. I believe it is not my place to judge her and her walk with God but rather to lift her up in my prayers. As a sister in Christ my heart goes out for her.

The thing is, being a new Christian, she prOBably needs good Christian guidance, advise, counseling, for the answer to what she ought to do in this situation is in God's Word, "The Holy Bible."

I'm not sure that she is getting good Christian guidance, advise, counseling, but I feel assured she is getting many prayers from concerned Christians.

[John81]

It's been reported that investigations into her family have shown she had been a Christian for awhile, her family knew about it and they never threatened her or gave any indication of ill will towards her.

From what has been presented thus far, it seems as if her Christian friends pushed the idea she should run away since her family is Muslim and someone might want to hurt her.

Unless something new is presented, the case seems to be built upon nothing more than "her parents are Muslim and some Muslims do honor killings so the girl needs to be kept away from her parents".

There have been several cases in recent years of Baptists committing murder. By proclaiming that this girl is in danger because some Muslims perform honor killings is no different than if someone proclaimed children who have Baptist parents are in danger because some Baptists have committed murder.

This is a very slippery slope because the American legal system is governed greatly by precedence and if children can be kept from their parents simply because of their religion (Muslim, this time) that means in the future this case can be used to justify children being kept from or taken from Baptists and other Christians.

Typically, in cases like this the social services and investigative forces lean heavily towards the child. The fact they have concluded there is no credible threat to the child stands out. Typically, these investigators are quick to latch onto any strand but in this case they have said they find no evidence of threat.

Right now this case seems to hinge upon the wishes of some Christians fighting against the girls parents rights based only upon them being Muslim. The judge has been, and still is, using stalling tactics to drag this case out. This is what some of the Christians around the girl have requested in the hopes they can stall things until she turns 18.

[Psalms18_28]

I know a few friends whose parents found out they got baptized in a baptist church. They made them quit church over it. So I don't think muslims really take their children faith lightly unless they are the type who believe all path leads to God but I don't think parents will be abusive toward their children over it either. Some kids will run away over their faith.. especially if they are not believers.

The parents think the church brainwash her into thinking her parents will do honor killing (there, as usual, making the church look bad).

I don't think it was the church. I think she was thinking about it all along. Sometimes there are things that give these kids more reason to run away.

I think what happened is that her parents did have extreme view/opinion about things (like my sister was telling me about her muslim friend extreme opinion of homosexuals... it was pretty bad) . When she told her church friends, they prOBably did what most people do when they think someone is in a abusive home... tell them to leave home to protect themselves. I don't think they were really brainwashing her, just giving her advice that keep her safe. Alot of people do that.

But anyway, The girl belong to her parents rather we agree with them or not. I don't know anywhere in the bible that I am aware of that we should take children away from their parents because they are not christian. If she is well care for, that's all it matter.God let people have babies so it is their responsibility of their own children and it is our christian responsibility to tell them about Christ.

[JerryNumbers]

I know a few friends whose parents found out they got baptized in a baptist church. They made them quit church over it. So I don't think muslims really take their children faith lightly unless they are the type who believe all path leads to God but I don't think parents will be abusive toward their children over it either. Some kids will run away over their faith.. especially if they are not believers.

The parents think the church brainwash her into thinking her parents will do honor killing (there, as usual, making the church look bad).

I don't think it was the church. I think she was thinking about it all along. Sometimes there are things that give these kids more reason to run away.

I think what happened is that her parents did have extreme view/opinion about things (like my sister was telling me about her muslim friend extreme opinion of homosexuals... it was pretty bad) . When she told her church friends, they prOBably did what most people do when they think someone is in a abusive home... tell them to leave home to protect themselves. I don't think they were really brainwashing her, just giving her advice that keep her safe. Alot of people do that.

But anyway, The girl belong to her parents rather we agree with them or not. I don't know anywhere in the bible that I am aware of that we should take children away from their parents because they are not christian. If she is well care for, that's all it matter.God let people have babies so it is their responsibility of their own children and it is our christian responsibility to tell them about Christ.

Its a fact, Many Muslims have killed their children for converting to Christianity. So why in the world would you think this about Muslims parents?

"but I don't think parents will be abusive toward their children over it either."

[John81]

I don't know that we could say many Muslims kill their family for converting, especially when it comes to Muslims in America. A few have but the vast majority have not.

Many Jews threaten their family members who come to Christ. Sometimes they are threatened themselves, sometimes the family will threaten suicide. Most often, the Jewish family disowns the one who was converted. Sometimes there is a reconciliation years down the line, but sometimes that person is cut off the rest of their life.

American law is based upon the individual and not upon group association. If the law is applied to Muslims differently than others then that's a violation of the law and the Muslims will be due compensation or the law must be changed so that all people may be viewed as potentially guilty because of their religion, their pastor, the particular church they attend, the school the children attend...

There is a reason Scripture tells us to stay out of the worldly courts.