The KJV

[Tim]

:thumb :goodpost:

[Me4Him]

That would be true if you believed that the Holy Spirit directly inspired the KJV. Obviously, most of us here don't believe that the KJV contains any errors. The way to defend the KJV, though, is not by using it to defend itself but rather by using facts to defend it. You cannot defend something with the very thing that you are trying to defend. It holds no credibility.

if you believed that the Holy Spirit directly inspired the KJV.
don't believe that the KJV contains any errors.

I'm not following your line of throught here, did man write a perfect book by himself????

You cannot defend something with the very thing that you are trying to defend. It holds no credibility

Here again, you've lost me, Scripture interprets Scripture, "BUT" to "UNDERSTAND" scripture requires "FAITH",

of course without that "FAITH" it wouldn't matter if "God himself" was trying to explain it, you still wouldn't understand it, case in point, Jesus/Israel.

The "TRUTH", both "Flesh/scripture", is always manifested here in the physical realm (world) but few have the "spiritual vision" to "SEE" it.

Israel's "blindness" to the "Truth" (Jesus) is easy for Christians to "see", but there's small perfections in scripture that goes beyond what many Christans have seen, a perfection that lies "BENEATH" what you read on the surface, and even the writers/translators didn't realize were there.

The KJV is like a "Zig saw puzzle", each piece will only fit in "It's place", and unless the interpretation/translation are correct, none of the "other pieces" will fit around it to complete the "whole".

This is "scripture interpreting Scripture", or, "in context" with other scripture.

And you won't find these "small perfections" in other translations, nor will you find "anything" in this world to give "credibility" to the truth of scripture except "FAITH".

[kevinmiller]

I'm not following your line of throught here, did man write a perfect book by himself????

No. God wrote the Bible through Holy men of God in the Greek and Hebrew. That was translated into English in the form of the KJV. Therefore, we have an inspired by preservation copy of the Scriptures. The KJV was not directly inspired.

Here again, you've lost me, Scripture interprets Scripture, "BUT" to "UNDERSTAND" scripture requires "FAITH",

of course without that "FAITH" it wouldn't matter if "God himself" was trying to explain it, you still wouldn't understand it, case in point, Jesus/Israel.

The DOCTRINES and PRINCIPALS found in Scripture can be interpreted through Scripture. The KJV is not a doctrine and cannot be found in Scripture. The KJV is a translation of Scripture for English-speaking peoples, it is the Scripture as a whole and is profitable for doctrine and for reproof. The KJV in itself cannot be a doctrine.

The "TRUTH", both "Flesh/scripture", is always manifested here in the physical realm (world) but few have the "spiritual vision" to "SEE" it.

Now you have lost me.

And you won't find these "small perfections" in other translations, nor will you find "anything" in this world to give "credibility" to the truth of scripture except "FAITH".

Anything you find in the Bible that gives the KJV credibility is nothing more than man-made doctrines. I dare say many of us could present arguments, from the Bible, in favor of Socialism and Catholicism. Are they in context? No. You won't find Bible doctrine for a specific Bible. The KJV is what it is because it is perfectly translated from the Greek and Hebrew. It is no more inspired than a perfectly translated Chinese Bible.

[Tim]

Kevin you are on a roll :thumb :goodpost:

[Randy]

You can find biblical basis for HOW the translation takes place. A literal word-for-word translation is required, as God gave men words, not ideas.

[kevinmiller]

There isn't any version that I can think of that is word-for-word. The KJV certainly isn't. The Greek literally translated would make no sense to us.

[Pastor Matt]

The KJV is not a doctrine

This is where I disagree with you. If the KJV is not doctrine then how can it be trusted at all? If it is not doctrine then it is on the same level of doctrine as our hymn books.

[Kubel]

The problem comes when people confuse inspiration with translation, and try to apply the doctrine of God-made-inspiration to man-made translation. We have scriptural support for one, not for the other. The Bible does not promise that copies or translations would be inspired or inerrant. Inspiration only applies to the originals.

The KJV (or any other legitimate translation) can be trusted because it is a translation of copies of the original inspired scriptures. It derives its authority from the originals. We know through faith that God inspired man to write the Bible, because it is recorded in the Bible (so our faith is ok there). We know through sight (not through faith) that all of the manuscripts we have today agree 99% with each other, that there are some obviously corrupt translations that cannot be trusted, and that a translation is faithful to its underlying texts through comparison.

For one to believe by faith, one absolutely must have scripture to back that faith. It's very convenient to believe by 'faith' that the KJV is inspired/inerrant/the only legitimate translation in English, but without scripture to back that faith, it's just a preference. Some people believe they can have faith without scripture. I don't think so (Rom 10:17).

[Randy]

Inspiration only applies to the originals.

And since there aren't any available, then what?

Since God promised to pereserve forever His word, and the originals are gone, what are we left with?

or any other legitimate translation

Just curious, how do you define a 'legitimate' translation?

It's very convenient to believe by 'faith' that the KJV is inspired/inerrant/the only legitimate translation in English, but without scripture to back that faith, it's just a preference.

That sounds suspiciously circular to me.

[Kubel]

And since there aren't any available, then what?

I don't know, what does the scripture say? Just because the scripture is silent on an issue doesn't mean we need to fill in the blanks with guesswork.

Since God promised to pereserve forever His word, and the originals are gone, what are we left with?

We as English speaking people are left with translations of copies that are faithful to the originals, and those that are not.

And who's to say God decided the KJV is the only legitimate translation? Did God? I don't see it anywhere in scripture. I only hear it from man.

Just curious, how do you define a 'legitimate' translation?

Translations that are faithful to trusted source texts. The King James Version, in my opinion, is an example of a legitimate translation. The TR and MT are widely trusted, and the KJV translators were faithful to translating those texts. The New World Translation is an example of one that is not (it was twisted and contorted to fit their beliefs- words snuck in here and there).

That sounds suspiciously circular to me.

How is it circular. Is 2 Timothy 3:16 suspiciously circular? Scripture telling that itself is given by inspiration. What about Romans 10:17? Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. You can't have true faith about a doctrine that is outside of scripture. You can have preferences, and perhaps some very good reasons behind those preferences. But it's not faith.

I am a KJVP. I prefer the KJV. I don't go around telling other people that the KJV is the only Bible for mankind. Where do people get this idea? By what authority do they make this teaching? Some sort of personal enlightenment? That's not exactly what I would consider a solid foundation for doctrine.

[IM4given]

I am a KJVP. I prefer the KJV. I don't go around telling other people that the KJV is the only Bible for mankind. Where do people get this idea? By what authority do they make this teaching? Some sort of personal enlightenment? That's not exactly what I would consider a solid foundation for doctrine.

The problem with that is the fact that other people think their Book of Mormon is just as important as the KJV Bible. Another problem with that is the Jehova's Witnesses think their New World Translation is just as important as the KJV Bible. Those versions were created by men that took the KJV and simply rewrote the parts of it that they did not like. Other Modern Versions of the Bible are likewise counterfieted copies of the actual KJV Bible, each of them altered to mean what ever the authors choose it to mean, omitting the parts that they don't like and adding in things that they thought it ought to say. Those MVs leave out whole chapters and verses, they omit the name of Jesus, and they do nothing but cause confusion. God is not the author of confusion.

Why go around with a pocketful of Monopoly Money when you can have the real deal? Why torture yourself with all of these false Bibles, when you already have one that is worth it's weight in gold? That is why I am KJVO - I recognize a real treasure when I see one!

[kevinmiller]

The problem with that is the fact that other people think their Book of Mormon is just as important as the KJV Bible. Another problem with that is the Jehova's Witnesses think their New World Translation is just as important as the KJV Bible. Those versions were created by men that took the KJV and simply rewrote the parts of it that they did not like. Other Modern Versions of the Bible are likewise counterfieted copies of the actual KJV Bible, each of them altered to mean what ever the authors choose it to mean, omitting the parts that they don't like and adding in things that they thought it ought to say. Those MVs leave out whole chapters and verses, they omit the name of Jesus, and they do nothing but cause confusion. God is not the author of confusion.

But just because others believe in something that is false does not mean that we should take the extreme opposite just so we are not associated with that. We have to give reasons for why most MV's are wrong. We cannot just take hold of the KJV and lift it up so that we can say that we English-speakers have one perfect, inspired Bible.

Why go around with a pocketful of Monopoly Money when you can have the real deal? Why torture yourself with all of these false Bibles, when you already have one that is worth it's weight in gold? That is why I am KJVO - I recognize a real treasure when I see one!

The KJV truly is a treasure, yet I am realizing that I cannot call myself KJVO. I use the Korean Bible as well. I am memorizing John 3:16 out of it. I don't believe there is necessarily anything wrong with the Geneva Bible or the Evidence Bible. I refuse to believe that the KJV is the only Bible that is inspired simply because some preachers have decided to make it something that it is, Scripturally, not.

[bibletotingunslinger]

I stand with my Sister(IM4given) here on this, well within two feet, I am taller.

I do my best to carefully not offend folks with those nuther funny Bibles, but I do say I stand on my 1611AV King James Bible and I exclude any "Vs", those are for the nuther ones.


I wasn't this way so much until the NIV crowd started telling me things that, well, ain't Bible.
I also have to ask some, just exactly who do you think the fourth man in the fire was?
You see, a careful understanding of the Old Testament will shew that they looked toward the coming of the Son of God as we look back to it, I don't think Nebuchadnezzar was miss quoted or
dumb in this matter.

[kevinmiller]

I don't think that most people here approve of the NIV. There are just some that believe that the KJV isn't the only Bible delivered airmail from Heaven. Sorry, bad joke.
Anyway, there aren't many people that can say they stand on an AV1611 either since you most likely hold a revised KJV from the 18th or 19th century.

[Pastor Matt]

I believe that if God preserved His Words, then he did just that. I believe that His Word has been preserved through out the ages, and right now for the English speaking people it is in the KJV. It was not in the past and it may not be in the future.

God did not tell us in His Word where He was going to preserve it through out the ages, just like many other things that God never mentioned specifically where He would preserve it. Imagine if He did? The KJV would have been written by someone in the NT trying to become famous. We would have thousands of the KJV's around. Kind of like Bible versions now, huh? Everyone wants a piece of the pie. It would been even more confusing.

It is all about preservation. Preservation in food is done to avoid decomposition or fermentation. When God preserves something, it is is done to avoid decomposition.