Why Calvinism cannot be true

[Guest Guest]

Here are the notes from the message my pastor preached about election on Wednesday night. It was the most easily understood message on the subject that I have ever head and it shows clearly why Calvinism is false doctrine.

If you want to hear the entire message, it will be up soon on the website (I don't know how soon, my husband is going to maintain the website but the website isn't finished yet). It will probably just be titled 1 Thessalonians 1:2-4. It will be one of the very first messages there, as it was our second ever Wednesday night service on Wednesday so there aren't too many archives haha.

http://www.heritagebapt.com/

Heritage Baptist Church, Picayune MS.
Pastor Jeremy Wilson

1 Thessalonians 1:2-4.
The word election is used in the Bible 6 times.
The word elect is used 17 times in the Bible.
The word elected is only used once in the whole Bible.
In all three forms, never once in the Bible does the word refer to an individual, it always refers to one of three groups: Jesus Christ, Israel, or the church.
Notice in 1 Thessalonians 1:4 that the word "brethren" is plural.
The law of first mention. Isaiah 42:1-4 is the first mention of election in the Bible, and it is referring to Christ here.
Never once in the Bible does election refer to Salvation.
Matthew 12:18 - here is a Biblical definition (use Scripture to interpret Scripture) of elect. God's elect is His chosen, His beloved, in whom His soul is well pleased.
Isaiah 45:4
Isaiah 65:9,22
God chose Israel, but not all of Israel was saved, election is not for salvation.
Matthew 24:22,24,30. Matthew 24 is dealing with Israel.
Romans 11:25-28
1 Peter 5:13
Dealing with the church.
2 Peter 1:10
Romans 8:33
Colossians 3:12 this is talking about us as the church AFTER salvation.
Titus 1:1
2 John 1,13
We are elected BECAUSE we were born-again into the church of Jesus Christ, not elected TO be born again.
The word "sovereignty" which is big on the Calvinism word-list, is not actually used in the Bible.
Election has nothing to do with salvation.
The word predestined/predestinated shows up four times in Scripture, and those times are in Ephesians 1:3-5,11 and Romans 8:28-30. This tells us that we were predestined to adoption, and to receive an inheritance, it has nothing to do with salvation. We can only be adopted BECAUSE we are saved.
Romans 8:28-30
We were predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ.
These two passages show us that after we get saved, we are predestinated to three things (none of them being salvation): adoption, to receive and inheritance, and to be conformed to Christ.

I hope this is as useful to somebody else as it was to me. Bro Jeremy has much wisdom!

Katy-Anne

[Jerry]

I am just getting ready to head out so only was able to skim this post - looks good, but I will have to look up the references later.

Here is an excellent article that will build on what has been stated here:

What Is Biblical Predestination? God's Eternal Purpose

[manofconviction]

Thanks for the post, aren't Wednesday services just what we need mid week?

[Guest Guest]

Yeah Wednesday nights are great. Our pastor is going through 1 Thessalonians verse by verse!

Katy-Anne

[manofconviction]

Great study. I really enjoy chapter 5.

[JJJ4given]

A while back I was doing a study on the word "eklektos" and I found that not once is it used in dealing with eternal life. But I do see it often used with inheritance.

Like this man pointed out, Israel, Jesus Christ, and the NT church are what it is referring to in every instance. We each have the choice then to get in Christ(salvation) and, in this age, join the NT church. However, the NT church is predestined for certain things, and it is up to us as individuals whether we get on board or not.

[deputydog530]

I am actually in the middle of preparing a message on predestination. I remember when I was first saved I struggled with this doctrine so much. Now it is so clear and easy to understand. Calvanists confuse the time of predestination. They place it at the time of phycsical birth, not spiritual birth. Good Posting Katie. Predestination is simply the benefits the Lord forordained for all who would believe. Amen :thumb

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Welcome back deputy

:smile

[deputydog530]

Thank You :tum

[suitman]

so did he teach and prove what the true way was or just show the verses that disprove the other?

[LindaR]

:amen: Thanks for the sermon notes. They are right on! I hope you don't mind if I copied them to my Word program.

David Cloud and Dave Hunt also have some really good material on refuting Calvinism.

BTW--your church website is really nice--I bookmarked it. Picayune, MS is on the Gulf coast--isn't it? I live in Northwest Mississippi, in the delta--not too far from Memphis, TN

[John the Baptist]

Here are the notes from the message my pastor preached about election on Wednesday night. It was the most easily understood message on the subject that I have ever head and it shows clearly why Calvinism is false doctrine.

If you want to hear the entire message, it will be up soon on the website (I don't know how soon, my husband is going to maintain the website but the website isn't finished yet). It will probably just be titled 1 Thessalonians 1:2-4. It will be one of the very first messages there, as it was our second ever Wednesday night service on Wednesday so there aren't too many archives haha.

http://www.heritagebapt.com/



I think this clearly shows that election has to do with salvation. The days were shortened so the elect could be saved.

Heritage Baptist Church, Picayune MS.
Pastor Jeremy Wilson

1 Thessalonians 1:2-4.
The word election is used in the Bible 6 times.
The word elect is used 17 times in the Bible.
The word elected is only used once in the whole Bible.
In all three forms, never once in the Bible does the word refer to an individual, it always refers to one of three groups: Jesus Christ, Israel, or the church.
Notice in 1 Thessalonians 1:4 that the word "brethren" is plural.
The law of first mention. Isaiah 42:1-4 is the first mention of election in the Bible, and it is referring to Christ here.
Never once in the Bible does election refer to Salvation.
Matthew 12:18 - here is a Biblical definition (use Scripture to interpret Scripture) of elect. God's elect is His chosen, His beloved, in whom His soul is well pleased.
Isaiah 45:4
Isaiah 65:9,22
God chose Israel, but not all of Israel was saved, election is not for salvation.
Matthew 24:22,24,30. Matthew 24 is dealing with Israel.
Romans 11:25-28
1 Peter 5:13
Dealing with the church.
2 Peter 1:10
Romans 8:33
Colossians 3:12 this is talking about us as the church AFTER salvation.
Titus 1:1
2 John 1,13
We are elected BECAUSE we were born-again into the church of Jesus Christ, not elected TO be born again.
The word "sovereignty" which is big on the Calvinism word-list, is not actually used in the Bible.
Election has nothing to do with salvation.
The word predestined/predestinated shows up four times in Scripture, and those times are in Ephesians 1:3-5,11 and Romans 8:28-30. This tells us that we were predestined to adoption, and to receive an inheritance, it has nothing to do with salvation. We can only be adopted BECAUSE we are saved.
Romans 8:28-30
We were predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ.
These two passages show us that after we get saved, we are predestinated to three things (none of them being salvation): adoption, to receive and inheritance, and to be conformed to Christ.

I hope this is as useful to somebody else as it was to me. Bro Jeremy has much wisdom!

Katy-Anne

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace

All Israel will not be saved there is a remnant according to the election of grace in evry generation that will be saved. Election difinitely deals with salvation.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Not all Israel which are of Israel, but those who are children of the promise that is of faith. But the remnant which is the elect. This refers to salvation.

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Those he called of the Jewsand gentiles election is individual.



2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Election does not take place after one is saved. There is no Scripture to base that on.

Eph 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" He chose us in eternity past. It means He chose us for Himself. He elected us.

God Bless
John

[Jerry]

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Why or how did God choose someone? Based on his foreknowledge of something. Of what? I believe the Scriptures indicate it was based on His foreknowledge of what they would do with the Gospel, with the Saviour.

[John the Baptist]

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father' date=' through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.[/i']

Why or how did God choose someone? Based on his foreknowledge of something. Of what? I believe the Scriptures indicate it was based on His foreknowledge of what they would do with the Gospel, with the Saviour.

Yes this is a good point. The Word ??????????? (proyinosko) is not prescience but it means to know someone or thing in a experiental relationship. It is a compound word pro- yinosko. Yinosko means aknowledge grounded in personal experience. "To become acquainted with." The Word "pro" sets this knowledge in eternity past. God in eternity past knew our qualities and personality and knew how he could use us in a redemptive relationship. Based on this know he elected certain ones to salvation. This sets election in eternity past.

Even if you believe that as God foresaw who would believe in him and elected them to salvation, Still his electing takes place in eternity past. The only way he could elect anyone is in Christ.

Eph 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

The Verb "hath Chosen" is ????????? is First Aorist Middle Indicative. Which means God choose for Himself. Man did not do the choosing.

2Ti 1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

God Bless
John

[JJJ4given]

Yes this is a good point. The Word ??????????? (proyinosko) is not prescience but it means to know someone or thing in a experiental relationship. It is a compound word pro- yinosko. Yinosko means aknowledge grounded in personal experience. "To become acquainted with." The Word "pro" sets this knowledge in eternity past. God in eternity past knew our qualities and personality and knew how he could use us in a redemptive relationship. Based on this know he elected certain ones to salvation. This sets election in eternity past.

Even if you believe that as God foresaw who would believe in him and elected them to salvation, Still his electing takes place in eternity past. The only way he could elect anyone is in Christ.

Eph 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

The Verb "hath Chosen" is ????????? is First Aorist Middle Indicative. Which means God choose for Himself. Man did not do the choosing.

2Ti 1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

God Bless
John

Many put this with a perspective of dealing with eternal life; being born again. However, I would ask that you look at a different perspective. Would it be possible that Peter was speaking of the NT church? He was speaking to those in NT churches and including himself as in one.

I see elect as a description of those in the NT church and it does not declare elect to eternal life but elect to a promise. Just as those who were part of Israel were called elect, it was dealing with the promise made unto Abraham. Not a promise of eternal life but a promise of the seed and a promise of the land of Canaan.

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Elect for what? Watch this:
1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Next verse:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,

The sentence doesn't stop there though:

that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

What exactly was chosen before the foundation of the world? The answer is given, "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love". Again, not dealing with salvation. Dealing with a completely different issue.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

What calling is Paul talking about here? It is not salvation. This is a calling after salvation. That calling is to suffer and follow him.

Watch the progression of that verse:
1)Who hath saved us

The first thing that must take place before you can get to the holy calling is you need to be saved. Then you can move to the next part:
2) and called us with a holy calling

Once saved you can be called to that holy calling. Not before. Certainly two separate things and issues. What is that calling?

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

and later on he reiterates this:

12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Observe though that he is not dealing with their salvation, but dealing with something that follows salvation.