Book of Enoch

[Guest Guest]

As stated before, let's not redefine a word to only mean what we want it to mean.

It means what it says brother. You can't say he wrote it when all the Bible says is that he said it. This is kind of like Eve saying "neither shall ye touch it" when God didn't say she couldn't touch it but only she couldn't eat it.

Wil

[Jerry]

How do you know that Paul quoted a written work. You better be careful in you assumptions there brother.

I think you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning - perhaps you need to go back there...

It wasn't an assumption - but a fact. I know the pagan philosopher wrote what Paul was quoting because it is a book that is still in existence today. With a little research, you can prove that. Offhand, I cannot remember what it was called - but various commentaries and Bible study resources mention it, and it would be quite easy for you to verify it instead of making your grumpy statements.

[JJJ4given]

It means what it says brother. You can't say he wrote it when all the Bible says is that he said it. This is kind of like Eve saying "neither shall ye touch it" when God didn't say she couldn't touch it but only she couldn't eat it.

Wil

I don't know what version you are using but my AV Bible does not say "said". It says "prophesied." And as proven, that can mean either written or spoken.

[heartstrings]

Prophecy....is divine, supernatural revelation and/or foretelling of future events.

For example: when Jesus was being scourged, they blindfolded him and hit him, then mockingly told Him to "prophesy" who had hit him. You can certainly write down what was prophesied.....but prophesying is NOT writing.

What you fail to realize is, you are dealing with the supernatural. Adam and Eve or Enoch said and did certain things, and nobody was around to write it down. But just because there was nobody there......God was there....and He knew exactly what went on and exactly what was said. If He chose to reveal those events to a man of God to write them down 10,000 years later, they are still accurate and true.

Do you believe that God revealed unknown things to prophets? Did they not heal? Raise the dead? Foretell the future? Then if God is able to reveal the unknown to a prophet, like Samuel or Elijah, or to fortell events like Joseph or Isaiah did, He can certainly reveal past events to them as well. He knows the end from the beginning, the future and the past.

Prophecy my friend...the supernatural.

[LindaR]

This site gives a brief explanation of the Book of Enoch:

http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Enoch.html

Question: "What is the book of Enoch and should it be in the Bible?"

Answer: The Biblical book of Jude quotes from the Book of Enoch in verses 14-15, "Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him." Does that mean the book of Enoch is inspired by God and should be in the Bible?

This is not the only Biblical quote from a non-Biblical source. The Apostle Paul quotes Epimenides in Titus 1:12 but that does not mean we should give any additional authority to Epimenides? writings. The same is true with Jude verse 14. Jude quoting from Enoch 1:9 does not indicate the entire book is inspired, or even true. All it means is that particular verse is true. It is interesting to note that no scholars believe the Book of Enoch to have truly been written by the Enoch in the Bible. As you said, Enoch was seven generations from Adam, prior to the Flood (Genesis 5:1-24). Evidently, though, this particular quote was genuinely something that Enoch prophesied ? or the Bible would not attribute it to him, ?Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men?? (Jude 14). This saying of Enoch was evidently handed down by tradition, and eventually recorded in the Book of Enoch.

[Jerry]

No offense, but that is just their opinion. There is no proof Jude quoted from any book - what more than likely happened is some overly zealous Jew took Jude's statement, and wrote a book with it included in it. It is like people trying to say that Paul and other NT writers quoted from the Septuagint - but there is no proof of a pre-Christian translation of the whole OT into Greek (though there is of the books of Moses). Again, what evidence reveals is Origen making his own translation of the OT into Greek, and calling that the Septuagint (ie. there is no evidence of any OT Greek copies prior to the Hexapla by Origen - which many believe was his own work, not a copy of other works).

[JJJ4given]

No offense' date=' but that is just their opinion. There is no proof Jude quoted from any book - what more than likely happened is some overly zealous Jew took Jude's statement, and wrote a book with it included in it. [/quote']

Along that line there is much speculation that Enoch only wrote the first 5 chapters and the rest was more then likely added around the 1st century. Chapter 6 is where it goes into the whole angels chasing after the daughters of men. Before that there is no reference to such. It's quite a contrast in line of thought from 5 to 6.

[JJJ4given]

Prophecy....is divine, supernatural revelation and/or foretelling of future events.

For example: when Jesus was being scourged, they blindfolded him and hit him, then mockingly told Him to "prophesy" who had hit him. You can certainly write down what was prophesied.....but prophesying is NOT writing.

What you fail to realize is, you are dealing with the supernatural. Adam and Eve or Enoch said and did certain things, and nobody was around to write it down. But just because there was nobody there......God was there....and He knew exactly what went on and exactly what was said. If He chose to reveal those events to a man of God to write them down 10,000 years later, they are still accurate and true.

Do you believe that God revealed unknown things to prophets? Did they not heal? Raise the dead? Foretell the future? Then if God is able to reveal the unknown to a prophet, like Samuel or Elijah, or to fortell events like Joseph or Isaiah did, He can certainly reveal past events to them as well. He knows the end from the beginning, the future and the past.

Prophecy my friend...the supernatural.

Please just read the Bible:

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

If prophecy can only mean "verbally spoken" then we have a talking book. :lol Thanks for the humor.

[heartstrings]

Please just read the Bible:

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

If prophecy can only mean "verbally spoken" then we have a talking book. :lol Thanks for the humor.

We would know none of the prophecies, in the finished Bible, unless they were written down. Many prophets "prophesied" without writing down the prophecy themselves. Somebody else wrote their prophecies down. You know this.

Take your book of Enoch and dump it in the trash along with the MV's, the Koran, and book of mormon. The King James Bible is God's complete word my friend.

[Guest Guest]

We would know none of the prophecies, in the finished Bible, unless they were written down. Many prophets "prophesied" without writing down the prophecy themselves. Somebody else wrote their prophecies down. You know this.

Take your book of Enoch and dump it in the trash along with the MV's, the Koran, and book of mormon. The King James Bible is God's complete word my friend.

Amen brother. The book of Enoch was a piece of garbage someone came up with because when it said Enoch said they read that Enoch wrote. So they jumped on this to come up with the book of Enoch.

Another example is:
Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets

[JJJ4given]

We would know none of the prophecies, in the finished Bible, unless they were written down. Many prophets "prophesied" without writing down the prophecy themselves. Somebody else wrote their prophecies down. You know this.

Take your book of Enoch and dump it in the trash along with the MV's, the Koran, and book of mormon. The King James Bible is God's complete word my friend.

Along your lines:
"Take your American history books and dump them, take your commentaries and dump them, take your dictionaries and dump them. The King James Bible is God's complete word my friend."

No one is promoting that the book of Enoch is of the canon of scriptures. There are better battles to fight then waging war on history books.

[Jerry]

Enoch is not a history book - it is the Apocrypha or Pseudopigrapha - false writings. Writings falsely claiming to be written by someone from the Bible. So there is deception there.

[LindaR]

I've been doing a Google search on "The Book of Enoch". All I am coming up with is that it is a non-biblical writing, supposedly found with the Dead Seas scrolls, etc. I also did a word search in my bible software program using the word "Enoch". Enoch is found in 11 verses in the KJ Bible, Old and New Testaments:

And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. (Genesis 4:17)

And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. (Genesis 4:18)

And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: (Genesis 5:18)

And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: (Genesis 5:19)

And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: (Genesis 5:21)

And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: (Genesis 5:22)

And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: (Genesis 5:23)

And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. (Genesis 5:24)

Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan, (Luke 3:37)

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Hebrews 11:5)

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, (Jude 1:14)

There is a good reason why any writings of Enoch are not considered inspired and we should not even try to speculate. If God wanted us to know why, He would have revealed it in the Scriptures we have now (the KJV). Apparently Enoch was a godly man, he walked with God and God translated him. He is found in the Hall of Faith in Hebrews 11 and Jude writes of him in verse 14 of his epistle. This does not mean that whatever Enoch wrote was inspired as the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16)--it only recognizes that Enoch was a man of God, not one of the "inspired" writers of Scriptures.

[Jerry]

This does not mean that whatever Enoch wrote was inspired as the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16)--it only recognizes that Enoch was a man of God, not one of the "inspired" writers of Scriptures.

My point is that this was not Enoch that wrote the book of Enoch - inspired or not. This book was found with other documents from the first century - dated about the destruction of Jerusalem - which is AFTER most of the rest of the NT was written. Enoch lived before the flood - you're talking possibly 3000 years before that. This book had nothing to do with the original Enoch - except for someone adding his name to it. That is like the religious Jews writing a Gospel of Thomas and a Gospel of Peter - or adding other books with OT names as their authors hundreds of years after the OT was finished being penned.

[LindaR]

Thanks Jerry! I was getting confused. I knew that the Book of Enoch was not inspired and really was trying to figure out what this thread was all about. Thank you for the clarification.

What is the topic of this thread anyway? :HUH: