Alternative meds

[Anon]

...namely acupuncture...

If you had a friend who had lots of health problems and pain, and you knew they used acupuncture.... (as well as other natural remedies, as some here do, which that part is fine...)

Do you all think acupuncture is occultic? I never thought of it before but came across alot of information online tonight that seems to point to it being kind of a "gateway" occultic practice.

Anyone know any more about this? It does help my friend's pain so I'd be kind of hesistant to say anything, I haven't really actually known her for much more than a year.

[John81]

Properly done, accupuncture seems to be a viable option.

While some practitioners do talk about "life forces" and such, there does seem to be something to these methods. As with things like massage (which can be beneficial for some problems), they can be performed wrong or for the wrong reasons, but done properly they are of benefit to some.

[Jerry]

It is occultic - the whole idea is to connect the energy points together in your body via the pins (or whatever they are puncturing you with). The same goes with reflexology, and other similar practices. Even Chiropractists (whatever the right word is) started off as an occultic technique - the difference is, straightening out your spine and putting it back in place will help you out medically (though aligning the spine - according to occultic chiropractists - would also help your energy flow correctly, yada, yada).

[Anon]

It is occultic - the whole idea is to connect the energy points together in your body via the pins (or whatever they are puncturing you with). The same goes with reflexology' date=' and other similar practices. Even Chiropractists (whatever the right word is) started off as an occultic technique - the difference is, straightening out your spine and putting it back in place will help you out medically (though aligning the spine - according to occultic chiropractists - would also help your energy flow correctly, yada, yada).[/quote']

Wait a minute... since I don't know much about this I can throw things out without actually arguing...

You said chiropractic started out as occultic, but now its ok because it works.

I did read on some Christian sites how technically acupuncture can work by basically putting your brain's attention on the focal points of the punctures and thus reducing the other pain...similar, a few sites said, as a mother rubbing the child's hurt knee or any kind of counter pressure on a wound, etc. There is a slight bit of scientific data possibly supporting it. So....

Is it occultic (as well as chiropractic) or is it ok as long as the person is not dabbling in the occult?

[John81]

Much of modern medicine could be said to stem from the occult as witchdoctors and shamans were the main ones who discovered the healing properties of various plants and such and used them in their healing rituals.

However, one can take an aspirin (for example) without chanting to the four winds or something and do them some good without actually partaking of the occult.

[Jerry]

There are chiropractists today that do focus on the occult aspect of it - but there are others that focus on medically aligning your spine. Putting a disk back into place, unpinching a nerve, straightening a damaged spine, etc. will help your body heal. How does poking someone's back somewhere do that? It doesn't - what it might do is temporarily cause your body to feel better because a pressure point/nerve was pressed. If my leg is aching, and I put pressure on the nerves leading to that leg, so perhaps numbing that area or creating more sensation in another area - that didn't HEAL my leg, it just made me feel better, for a short time.

[John81]

There was a news story on this earlier in the year. The story related how Western doctors are learning that at least some aspects of accupuncture do indeed work. They stated that more tests are being done to try and determine why they work. In the meantime, they said a growing number of Western doctors are using accupuncture for certain problems with great results.

I saw this either on Fox News or the Discovery Channel; not sure which.

[kevinmiller]

Yeah, I can't remember how it works and now it's going to drive me crazy. I'm pretty sure my Korean friend told me how it works. Her grandmother goes every now and again for it. Her father is a pastor, btw, so they're certainly far from the cult.
But yeah, I don't see anything wrong with accupuncture. If it's used for medicinal purposes, there's nothing wrong with it.

[matie-k]

I've never heard of either of these being of the occult!

[kevinmiller]

Me neither Katie, it's just part of oriental medicine. But then again, maybe some people have used it that way. It hasn't been my experience, though. And I'm sure you would know even better than I would since you've lived in China for a while now. :wink

[Jerry]

For the sake of the argument, perhaps there are aspects of acupuncture that are not associated with the occult and are truly medical (or there are deceived Christians, who now accept it because it has become mainstream) - but if you study out its history, you will see that is where it (and these other oriental techniques) came from.

[kevinmiller]

I actually just read the wikipedia article on it and I didn't see anywhere where it was mentioned that it originated in the cult. It originated chiefly in China(though there are Korean versions, etc.) and it was based on empirical evidence. It was medicine and nothing more. Sure, New Agers have probably taken it and used and adopted it to their beliefs but that doesn't mean that's how it originated. Even if it did, if it's effective without the occult then there's nothing wrong with using it. So far, I've found and heard nothing that would indicate that it did have occultic origins.

[Jerry]

No offense, Kevin, but in your posts you are interchanging the terms cult and occult. They are not the same thing.

Connecting the chi (energy) centers of the body together is occultic - and that is originally what acupuncture, reflexology, and some of these other oriental arts were designed to do.

Wickipedia is going to present the popular opinion of something. I don't see how something that started off as evil - as seen in light of God's Word - magically becomes good because it is changed slightly, or people's perceptives of it has changed.

Matthew 7:17-18 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

This passage tells me if the origins of something are evil, the fruit will be too.

[kevinmiller]

But you need to prove that its origins were indeed evil. I'm looking forward to hearing from Katie on this as she will probably have more knowledge on the subject. Perhaps I will ask one of my Korean friends when I get a chance. I talk to a Korean of some sort
almost everyday so I'll see if I can find out the origins from someone.

Also, because the Chinese applied Qi to acupuncture doesn't mean that it was built around the occult but that the occult was applied to it. Besides, if it works, occult or not, there is nothing wrong with using it. I'm sure there were many witches and such in history that have applied their witchcraft to medicines that we use today. Do we shun them because of their origins if they work separately from the occult? Of course not.

[LindaR]

From Dave Hunt's book, "Occult Invasion: The Subtle Seduction of the World and Church", page 269-270:

"Western health care has been invaded by the occult. Acupuncture, for example, was designed in China to realign in one's body the universal force called the tao, made up of yin and yang. Yes, a needle piercing the skin could conceivably cause a beneficial reaction in a nerve, but that is not the original theory behind it. According to anthropologist Michael Harner (who praises the holistic movement), the word "holistic" is a euphemism for witchcraft, now known as shamanism:

'The burgeoning field of holistic medicine shows a tremendous amount experimentation involving...techniques long practiced in shamanism, such as visualization, altered states of consciousness, aspects of psychoanalysis, hypnotherapy, meditation, positive attitude [Positive/Possibility Thinking], stress-reduction, and mental and emotional expression of personal will for health and healing [positive confession].
In a sense, shamanism is being reinvented in the West precisely because it is needed.' (Michael Harner, The Way of the Shaman, pg. 136)

The entire chapter on Holistic Medicine is a good read with lots of information.