Cain and Abel

[brianlove84]

A story so intriguing, and so astounding that it actually seems that it has regenerated throughout history. this history of Rome revolves around the murder of a brother against his kin in order to gain supremacy, so its resounding. do you think that cultures take this story and disregard or is it almost an accepted metaphor for such a brutal murder and shows were loyalty and such lie?

Brian
Fontana

[Jerry]

:puzzled: Perhaps the story of Rome's founding only has a loose relation to Cain and Abel. From what I recall (though I never studied up on it), the story of Rome's founding is very different.

[Madeline]

A story so intriguing, and so astounding that it actually seems that it has regenerated throughout history. this history of Rome revolves around the murder of a brother against his kin in order to gain supremacy, so its resounding. do you think that cultures take this story and disregard or is it almost an accepted metaphor for such a brutal murder and shows were loyalty and such lie?

Brian
Fontana

I don't think there is some mystical connection to Cain and Abel that causes a "repeat" of this sin as time goes by. All kinds of sin will be repeated down through time. Once sin entered into the world, all manner of sin entered. What can be imagined in the depraved mind will be attempted...

Love,
Madeline

[qwerty guy]

Satan and the fallen angels, as well as the angels, got to watch the entire universe including man being made. They know how we work, the buttons to push, and the outcomes they can cause. They only get smarter as time goes by and this knowledge is lost to man who turns from God, and they gain experience.

They knew how to get Cain to do what he did, and they know how to push those same buttons in people who have the same tells.

You want a biblical connection to the founding of Rome with Cain and Able? The devils saw the same stuff as they did with Cain and already knew how to take care of it.

[Guest Guest]

Satan and the fallen angels, as well as the angels, got to watch the entire universe including man being made. They know how we work, the buttons to push, and the outcomes they can cause. They only get smarter as time goes by and this knowledge is lost to man who turns from God, and they gain experience.

They knew how to get Cain to do what he did, and they know how to push those same buttons in people who have the same tells.

You want a biblical connection to the founding of Rome with Cain and Able? The devils saw the same stuff as they did with Cain and already knew how to take care of it.

Do you mean that Satan and the angels had already fallen at this point?

[qwerty guy]

Do you mean that Satan and the angels had already fallen at this point?

You mean during creation? No. Everything was still ok when the 6 days were done.
Personally, talking time lines, after studying it out, and I can give you all the reference material on any of this if you want:
Angels pre-6 day creation (they are heavenly creatures not of this universe)
Tempting in the garden: anywhere from day 7 (most likely) till about 52 years later
Binding of some devils into the pit: after Eden up until Jesus
War in heaven and Satan/devils no longer having access to heaven: time of Jesus

I'm sure I'm going to get a TON of comments on that, so like I said, if anyone wants to see the biblical verses to support anything said, I'll be happy to PM the info

[Jerry]

The Bible teaches everything in Heaven and earth - including the angels, the host of Heaven - was created in those six days. Angels were created to be ministers to mankind; therefore it does not make sense to have them created before the creation of the world. Both Psalm 104 and Job 38 give the order of creation, and angels fit in with day two or three.

Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Nehemiah 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

There are more verses on this - if you do a search on this theme (angels and creation) on this site, you will find more and explanations or points made about why I believe angels were not made before the creation of the earth. (I could list them all here, but it would be better to read them in the context of a whole conversation on this theme).

[qwerty guy]

yea........................

you're wrong

[Jerry]

What Biblical passages (not traditions) prove me wrong? The Bible nowhere states angels were made before the earth was created - and the passages I quoted and referred to above actually state they were part of His creation (all that is in Heaven and in earth - including the hosts of Heaven that worshipped God - certainly wasn't referring to the starry host there) within those six days.

[qwerty guy]

No. They really don't.

You're wrong.

[282Mikado]

I never studied this out so I can't say definitively one way or the other, but Jerry asked for scriptual references and I haven't seen anything forthcoming. Only "you're wrong". Based on the evidence I see so far, I'd have to say I side with Jerry. His arguement has been a tad bit more informative and concise.

[Guest Guest]

While I disagree with Jerry, at least I'd post some Scripture to back up my disagreement.

We've been there before, and I'm not going to totally get into it, but I believe that God created the heaven (singular) and the earth, which was followed by a short Gap (1000 years), then 7 years of desolation before the recreation in Genesis 1:2-3. It fits with the verse Jerry posted:

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Which heaven is that talking about? I believe it's the "firmament of heaven," or our atmosphere. It's a long discussion, but suffice it to say that I believe Satan and the angels fell which caused the destruction of the earth (no humans or living material to die) so it "was without form and void." This beginning model fits with the end, 7 year Tribulation followed by 1000 years of peace.

Again, there's threads on the Gap and we can discuss it somewhere else (other than OB, probably), but I was just throwing in my little take.

[Anon]

If the Gap Theory is correct, then throw out my Bible because I"m sure there's lots of extraBiblical gobbly-gook we can put in the 400 silent years btw the OT and NT.

[Jerry]

Yup, it is NEVER a good idea to read into the Bible what is not there... (and there IS no Gap taught anywhere in the Bible).

[HappyChristian]

Yup' date=' it is NEVER a good idea to read into the Bible what is not there... (and there IS no Gap taught anywhere in the Bible).[/quote']


Agreed! It's actually pure speculation - reading "between the lines" as it were (that's what my unlce was taught to do...it's amazing what you can come up with when you read between the lines of the Bible!)