Thoughts on the NKJV

[Guest Guest]

find it really hard to believe that Satan would be responsible for anything that says "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." He's too busy writing the books for Eckhart Tolle that Oprah and all the zombies in America think are the new scriptures.

"1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?"

[Jerry]

Right Seth - a little error mixed in with truth makes it no longer truth. Who wants their food with just a little arsenic in it - even if it was sweet Grandma's apple pie. Sure, maybe they have some passages right on - but there are many that are not. Sorry, I can't stomach poison, and have no interest in digesting it (which we are to do with the Word of God).

[Annie]

Right Seth - a little error mixed in with truth makes it no longer truth. Who wants their food with just a little arsenic in it - even if it was sweet Grandma's apple pie. Sure' date=' maybe they have some passages right on - but there are many that are not. Sorry, I can't stomach poison, and have no interest in digesting it (which we are to do with the Word of God).[/quote']Jerry, I don't understand this analogy; maybe you could clarify. What is "poisonous" about the NKJV and NASB? I guess what I'm asking is what specific material in these versions contradicts any major Christian doctrine? Or are you defining "poison" as simply saying things using different words that mean the same thing, or not including exactly the same amount of verses as the KJV, or leaving out/changing a comparatively teeny-tiny amount of words regarding Christian doctrine, even though these versions include a vast amount of other references that clearly explain and emphasize the important doctrines of our faith? I don't understand the "poison" analogy. Poison indicates an active (not passive) toxic ingredient. What is/are the active, toxic ingredient(s) in the NKJV and NASB--IOW, what, specifically, in these Bibles absolutely contradicts major, foundational Christian doctrines?

[Revelation3:20]

Annie,

Please look at these verses.

The NKJV says:

Matthew 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

But the Bible says:

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The NKJV implies in that verse that it is difficult to get to heaven. That is not true. The way IS narrow as the KJV says though. It is through Christ alone. Narrow is not difficult, big difference. If the way was "difficult" for us that would make salvation of our works.


Lets look at another place.

Th NKJV says:

"1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

But the Bible says:

"1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

The NKJV is implying in this passage that getting saved is somehow a long drawn out process instead of a one time act of justification as the bible teaches. Satan is subtle.

There are quite a number of passages like these but hopefully this is enough to show that the NKJV does indeed corrupt the Word of God and changes the meanings of certain verses.

[Behold the Lamb]

Annie,

Please look at these verses.

The NKJV says:

Matthew 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

But the Bible says:

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The NKJV implies in that verse that it is difficult to get to heaven. That is not true. The way IS narrow as the KJV says though. It is through Christ alone. Narrow is not difficult, big difference. If the way was "difficult" for us that would make salvation of our works.

Here's what Strong's says about the word narrow (KJV): 2346: thlibo, akin to the base of 5147; to crowd (lit. or fig.):--afflict, narrow, throng, suffer tribulation, trouble.


So the Greek word there is different than a simple, straight-forward narrow like we have in English, since it has several additional implications.

Lets look at another place.

Th NKJV says:

"1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

But the Bible says:

"1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

The NKJV is implying in this passage that getting saved is somehow a long drawn out process instead of a one time act of justification as the bible teaches. Satan is subtle.

There are quite a number of passages like these but hopefully this is enough to show that the NKJV does indeed corrupt the Word of God and changes the meanings of certain verses.

When I read the NKJV, I didn't take that to mean "being" as in an ongoing process, but being saved as in "getting saved" (since Paul is talking about the many people who are being converted at all times). Think "We are being killed all day long." It's not saying we are all slowly being tortured to death, but rather, more and more of us are being killed instantly at all times.

Anyway, not saying those renderings were the wisest of choices. Just pointing out that there is some logic in them and they don't have to necessarily be tricks of the Devil.

[Guest Guest]

Hello behold The Lamb!


I want to ask you a question if I may. Please understand that there is no harmful intent to this question, I'm just trying to get an idea of where you are coming from.



How familiar and how confident are you with the writings of James Strong, in other words, do you trust "strong's" definitions of Bible words above that of the teaching of the Holy Ghost, and of the Bible itself? ( when I say 'Bible' , I mean the AV).



I hope you will have a wonderful 4th!

[kevinmiller]

The word "strait" by its very nature means difficult or characterized by trouble. Therefore, the rendering in the NKJV would also be correct and more clear, in my opinion.

[Behold the Lamb]

Hello behold The Lamb!


I want to ask you a question if I may. Please understand that there is no harmful intent to this question, I'm just trying to get an idea of where you are coming from.



How familiar and how confident are you with the writings of James Strong, in other words, do you trust "strong's" definitions of Bible words above that of the teaching of the Holy Ghost, and of the Bible itself? ( when I say 'Bible' , I mean the AV).



I hope you will have a wonderful 4th!

Hey msKJ!

I don't of course, trust his writings more than those of the teachings of the Holy Spirt (or Holy Ghost). However, I do trust the definitions of Greek words found in the Strong's Concordance. Multiple sources will corroborate this definition. In fact, so will the King James version. Other passages in the KJV translate thilbo otherwise:

In 2 Corinthians 1:6, the KJV translates thilbo as "afflicted". "And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation."

In 1 Thessalonians 3:4, the KJV translates thilbo as "tribulation": "For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know."

In 2 Thessalonians 1:7, thilbo is translated as "troubled" in the KJV. "And to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels."

In 2 Thessalonians 2:2, again, the KJV translates thilbo as "troubled"

In 1 Timothy 5:10, the KJV translates thilbo as "afflicted".

In Hebrews 11:37, the KJV translates thilbo as "afflicted": "They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented.

In 2 Thessalonians 1:6, thlipsis, which is derived from thilbo, is translated as "tribulation". The Strong's definition of thlipsis is "pressure, afflicted, anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble." Again, this is slightly different from the word "thilbo" used in Matthew 7, but it is derived directly from it. See also Romans 5:3, Ephesians 3:1, and 2 Thes 1:4. It can also translate affliction, see Mat. 24:9, Mark 4:17, Mark 13:19, Acts 7:11, 2 Cor 2:4, 2 Cor. 4:17, 2 Cor. 8:2, Phil. 1:16, Phil. 4:14, 1 Th. 1:6, 1 Th. 3:7, James 1:27.


I'm sure thilbo is used more times in the NT, but those are the ones that I was able to find with my limited time. :frog The occurrence in Matthew 7 seems to be the only case where thilbo is translated narrow in the King James Bible.

So essentially, based on the renderings of thilbo in the KJV, it is more associated with trouble, trial, and tribulation than narrowness. However, the word itself seems to carry the connotations of all of that. So if you were reading the original Greek, when you read the word "thilbo", it would evoke an idea of "tribulation, trial, trouble, and difficulty characterized by narrowness, and pressing in at all sides"--or at least, that's the idea I get from it based on Strong's and the context surrounding the passages in the KJV. The problem is, there are many words in Greek that we don't have a direct translation for in English (such as logos, which is translated "Word" in John 1), so translators, rather than trying to give the whole meaning of those words, give the part of the meaning that they believe best fits the context. And for this reason, an English translation of a the NT is never going to be perfectly inerrant and convey the original meaning 100%.

So the KJV and the NKJV are both correct in their translations of the word "thilbo". Narrow is correct, and difficult is correct, but a full translation of the word would require a word in English which connotes both of those words simultaneously, along with perhaps a few others. But we do not have such a word.

I also looked up the word strait from Matthew 7:13-14 in Strong's. It is the Greek word "Stenos", which is defined "narrow (from obstacles standing close about):--strait. Sounds pretty similar to thilbo.

So truly, the NKJV translation of the passage is the truest to the Greek, in that it species difficulty AND narrowness. The only two occurrences of this word I see are the two in Matthew 7.

Essentially, my position is that there is no such thing as a perfectly translated and inerrant translation of the Bible. In its original form, the Bible was perfectly as God intended. However, by the fact that there are Hebrew and [especially] Greek words that cannot directly translate into English and must be substituted with a word of lesser meaning, some things have been slightly modified or lost. This is especially true in the areas of the King James that were actually translated from a translation, the Latin Vulgate. The amazing thing however, is that, among most of the major English translations, the major doctrines and beliefs of the Bible remain intact and are not harmed. Even though some translations are more accurate in some places than others, this fact still remains thanks to God's preservation of His words to mankind.

I hope you better understand where I am coming from now.

Have a blessed Fourth! :)

[Jerry]

The word "strait" by its very nature means difficult or characterized by trouble. Therefore' date=' the rendering in the NKJV would also be correct and more clear, in my opinion.[/quote']

No - strait means confined or narrow, not difficult. The way of life/salvation is narrow (only through faith in Jesus' finished work upon the cross), not difficult.

Behold The Lamb, if all you want to do is argue and push MVs, nothing anyone can say will matter. If you care about the truth, search this Forum for threads on the NKJV and you will find a lot of problems with it.

[Guest Guest]

The word "strait" by its very nature means difficult or characterized by trouble. Therefore, the rendering in the NKJV would also be correct and more clear, in my opinion.

Unfortunately that is your "new understanding", which is not of God, speaking and thus it goes against what the bible says. The word "strait" here means restrictive, limited. It does not mean difficult. In the OT "strait" is used to mean difficult in some places, but as far as I am aware it is not used that way in the NT.

Look at what it would mean if the NKJV was correct.

NKJV says: "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way"

While the KJV says: "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way,"

Who is the Gate? Christ right? The NKJV is saying that the gate, Christ, is "narrow" which greek word, as BTL correctly pointed out, also implies affliction and trouble in addition to restriction.

So literally, the NKJV is saying that Christ is limitation, restriction, affliction, and that the way to heaven is difficult.

On the other hand, the KJV is saying that the "gate"(Christ) is restrictive, and that the Christian life is tightly defined and will contain affliction and trouble.

Other verses prove the NKJV is a coruption of the meaning of the verse.

"Matthew 11:29-30 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Obviously he didn't mean that because the Christian life contained troubles it was difficult. He says his yoke is easy.

[Guest Guest]

Here are some more problems with the NKJV:

It says:

"Titus 3:10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,"

The KJV says:
"Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"

Big difference between a heretic and a "divisive man" right? A divisive man could be even one like Christ himself.

Christ said:

Matthew 10:34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

And Paul, through the Holy Spirit said:

"1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;"

Jesus Christ, a divisive man... and the preaching of him also divisive. Under the NKJV translation we should reject those who by preaching what Christ has said create a division... :loco Actually, that does indeed sound much like what many of the promoters of the MV's do...

[Behold the Lamb]

Strait can mean difficult. Hence the term "dire straits". Regardless, like I said, the root word from which "strait" is derived from does carry that meaning. Again, the definition of stenos (strait) is this: narrow (from obstacles standing close about):--strait. It is narrow, but narrow because of obstacles.

Salvation is not exactly the same as the way of life. The way of life is where salvation leads. As in, once you are saved, you are on the way of life. It is not that salvation is hard (accepting Christ is one of the easiest things you can ever do), but the walk that comes along with it is hard. A true Christian will face trials, persecution, hatred, anger, dislike, contempt, etc. A true Christian will lose friends, family, material possessions, and even his life for his faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus told us this very thing many times:

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:10

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. And he that findeth his life shall lose it, but he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." -Matthew 10:34-39

"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." Matthew 16:24-25, see also Luke 9:23.

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the world that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." -John 15:18-20

And my favorite verse in the New Testament...

"In this world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -John 16:33

So, that's not what it takes to be saved, but that's what salvation leads to: The way of life. That's why you'll have a hard time convincing me that someone who just repeated a prayer at an altar and got dunked in water and then went on living a totally comfortable life without any kind of suffering for Christ and without ever bearing any fruit is truly a Christian.



Well, considering the fact that I used to be staunchly KJV only, I can't be that obstinate. :Green

I'm not arguing or pushing modern versions. I'm just telling the truth about the particular passage brought up. God chose to use the word thilbos and stenos, not I. :frog I'm just telling you what it means, and what the original word God used in the original language he chose (Greek) means. I'm just trying to contribute to an intelligent conversation, so I ask that you please not discount me just because I take a different position than you. At least take the time to understand why I take that position. I do, after all, take the time to explain it.

Thanks, and again, have a blessed Fourth. :smile

[Behold the Lamb]

Here are some more problems with the NKJV:

It says:

"Titus 3:10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,"

The KJV says:
"Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"

Big difference between a heretic and a "divisive man" right? A divisive man could be even one like Christ himself.

The Greek root word here means both a schismatic (divisive man) and a heretic. However, IMPO, this is one of those cases where the KJV definitely chose the better option. A heretic, by nature, is going to be divisive, so the word heretic would have covered both. However, I don't think anyone is going to read that verse [in context] and take it to mean Christ. Nontheless, KJV wins that round. :thumb

[Guest Guest]

Salvation is not exactly the same as the way of life. The way of life is where salvation leads. As in, once you are saved, you are on the way of life. It is not that salvation is hard (accepting Christ is one of the easiest things you can ever do), but the walk that comes along with it is hard. A true Christian will face trials, persecution, hatred, anger, dislike, contempt, etc. A true Christian will lose friends, family, material possessions, and even his life for his faith in Jesus Christ.

If you say that the Christian life is "hard" it is because you are not abiding in Christ. If you are not abiding in him you are not living the way of life. That is the only time our Christian life is difficult. That is because it is an attempt to be "Christian" without the power of Christ. Yes there are issues and problems, but Gods grace is big enough that it is never "hard" or "difficult" if you will abide in him. The way of life is not a terrible life of misery that we struggle along in desperately hoping things will get better some day, it is a joyful warfare that we cannot lose as long as we continue in him. We start to lose and become miserable when we leave the way of life.

Christ said:

"Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Paul, through the Holy Spirit, said:

"Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us."

BTW Christ is "the way of life" as well as the gate to life. The Christian life is Christ.

"John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

"Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

"Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."

[Behold the Lamb]

If you say that the Christian life is "hard" it is because you are not abiding in Christ. If you are not abiding in him you are not living the way of life. That is the only time our Christian life is difficult. That is because it is an attempt to be "Christian" without the power of Christ. Yes there are issues and problems, but Gods grace is big enough that it is never "hard" or "difficult" if you will abide in him. The way of life is not a terrible life of misery that we struggle along in desperately hoping things will get better some day, it is a joyful warfare that we cannot lose as long as we continue in him. We start to lose and become miserable when we leave the way of life.

You're exactly right. I wish whoever wrote the song that says "Just a few more weary days and then I'll fly away" would have realized that.

We are more than conquerors, and nothing this world tries to bring against us will hold us down. If we truly abide in Christ, no matter what kind of persecution we go through, we can still have joy. Jesus gives us peace--but it's not the kind of peace the world gives us. It's the kind of peace we can carry straight through the gates of hell (which will TRY--but not succeed--to come against us) and yet still have joy because we know that we are Sons of the most high God through Jesus Christ.

Nevertheless, in that peace, and in that joy, we will still face trouble and persecution.