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Posted (edited)

Where do people go when they die?

The bible states that in death they are gathered unto their people according to their families.

Genesis 25:7-10 And these are the days of the years of Abraham’s life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years. 8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. 9 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre; 10 the field which Abraham purchased of the sons of Heth: there was Abraham buried, and Sarah his wife.

Genesis 25:17-18 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people. 18 And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren.

Genesis 35:27-29 And Jacob came unto Isaac his father unto Mamre, unto the city of Arbah, which is Hebron, where Abraham and Isaac sojourned. 28 And the days of Isaac were an hundred and fourscore years. 29 And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.

Genesis 49:28-33 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them. 29 And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered unto my people: bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite, 30 in the cave that is in the field of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought with the field of Ephron the Hittite for a possession of a burying place. 31 There they buried Abraham and Sarah his wife; there they buried Isaac and Rebekah his wife; and there I buried Leah. 32 The purchase of the field and of the cave that is therein was from the children of Heth. 33 And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.

Genesis 50:24-26 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.26 So Joseph died, being an hundred and ten years old: and they embalmed him, and he was put in a coffin in Egypt. (Exodus13:19And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you. Joshua24:32 And the bones of Joseph, which the children of Israel brought up out of Egypt, buried they in Shechem, in a parcel of ground which Jacob bought of the sons of Hamor the father of Shechem for an hundred pieces of silver: and it became the inheritance of the children of Joseph.)

This gathering does not mean bodies buried together but refers to the gathering of their Souls.

Numbers 20:23-29 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in mount Hor, by the coast of the land of Edom, saying,24Aaron shall be gathered unto his people: for he shall not enter into the land which I have given unto the children of Israel, because ye rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah. 25 Take Aaron and Eleazar his son, and bring them up unto mount Hor: 26and strip Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son: and Aaron shall be gathered unto his people, and shall die there. 27 And Moses did as the Lord commanded: and they went up into mount Hor in the sight of all the congregation. 28 And Moses stripped Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son; and Aaron died there in the top of the mount: and Moses and Eleazar came down from the mount. 29 And when all the congregation saw that Aaron was dead, they mourned for Aaron thirty days, even all the house of Israel.

Numbers 27:12-14 And the Lord said unto Moses, Get thee up into this mount Abarim, and see the land which I have given unto the children of Israel.13And when thou hast seen it, thou also shalt be gathered unto thy people, as Aaron thy brother was gathered. 14 For ye rebelled against my commandment in the desert of Zin, in the strife of the congregation, to sanctify me at the water before their eyes: that is the water of Meribah in Kadesh in the wilderness of Zin. (Numbers 31:1-2And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,2Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.)

Deuteronomy 32:48-52 And the Lord spake unto Moses that selfsame day, saying, 49 Get thee up into this mountain Abarim, unto mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, that is over against Jericho; and behold the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel for a possession: 50 and die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people: 51 because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel. 52 Yet thou shalt see the land before thee; but thou shalt not go thither unto the land which I give the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 34:5-8 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord. 6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. 7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. 8 And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended. (Jude 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.)

2 Kings 22 Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned thirty and one years in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Jedidah, the daughter of Adaiah of Boscath. 2 And he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, and walked in all the way of David his father, and turned not aside to the right hand or to the left….18 But to the king of Judah which sent you to enquire of the Lord, thus shall ye say to him, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, As touching the words which thou hast heard; 19 because thine heart was tender, and thou hast humbled thyself before the Lord, when thou heardest what I spake against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, that they should become a desolation and a curse, and hast rent thy clothes, and wept before me; I also have heard thee, saith the Lord. 20 Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again.

Everyone was gathered to sleep with their fathers.

Deuteronomy 31:16 And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; ...
1 Kings 2:10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David. (2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.)

1 Kings 11:43 And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father:...

1 Kings 14:20 And ...Jeroboam...slept with his fathers...

1 Kings 14:31 Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David….

1 Kings 15:8 And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David:...

1 Kings 15:24 And Asa slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David...

1 Kings 16:6 So Baasha slept with his fathers, and was buried in Tirzah:...

1 Kings 16:28 So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria:...

1 Kings 22:40 So Ahab slept with his fathers;...

1 Kings 22:50 And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers….

2 Kings 8:24 And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David:...

2 Kings 10:35 And Jehu slept with his fathers: and they buried him in Samaria….

2 Kings 13:9 And Jehoahaz slept with his fathers; and they buried him in Samaria:...

2 Kings 13:13 And Joash slept with his fathers;... Joash was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel.

1 Kings 16:6 So Baasha slept with his fathers, and was buried in Tirzah:...

1 Kings 16:28 So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria:...

1 Kings 22:40 So Ahab slept with his fathers;...

1 Kings 22:50 And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers...

2 Kings 8:24 And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David:...

2 Kings 10:35 And Jehu slept with his fathers: and they buried him in Samaria….

2 Kings 13:9 And Jehoahaz slept with his fathers; and they buried him in Samaria:...

2 Kings 13:13 Joash slept with his fathers;...and Joash was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel.

2 Kings 14:16 And Jehoash slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel;...

2 Kings 14:21-23 ...Azariah,... the king slept with his fathers.

2 Kings 14:29 And Jeroboam slept with his fathers, even with the kings of Israel;...

2 Kings 15:7 Azariah slept with his fathers; and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David:...

2 Kings 15:22 And Menahem slept with his fathers;...

2 Kings 15:38 Jotham slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers...

2 Kings 16:20 And Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David:...

2 Kings 20:21 And Hezekiah slept with his fathers:...

2 Kings 21:18 And Manasseh slept with his fathers, and was buried in the garden of his own house,...

2 Kings 24:6 So Jehoiakim slept with his fathers: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chronicles 9:31 Solomon slept with his fathers, and he was buried in the city of David his father:...

2 Chronicles 12:16 And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David:...

2 Chronicles 14:1 So Abijah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David:...

2 Chronicles 16:13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

2 Chronicles 21:1 Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David

2 Chronicles 26:23 Uzziah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the field of the burial which belonged to the kings; for they said, He is a leper:...

2 Chronicles 27:9 And Jotham slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David:...

2 Chronicles 28:27 And Ahaz slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city, even in Jerusalem: but they brought him not into the sepulchres of the kings of Israel:...

2 Chronicles 32:33 Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the chiefest of the sepulchres of the sons of David: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honour at his death….

2 Chronicles 33:20 So Manasseh slept with his fathers, and they buried him in his own house:...

They were to sleep until they are called to come forth.

Job 14:14-15 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. Job 19:25-27 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: 26 and though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: 27 whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. (1 Cor 15:50-52 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.)

Daniel 12: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever….13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Isaiah 24:21-23 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited. 23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

On earth Christ called the sleeping dead back to life.

Luke 8:51-55 And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden. 52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. 53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. 54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. 55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.

John 11:11-44 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep….21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. 22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. 23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world…..40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? 41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. 42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. 43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. 44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Matthew 27:50-53 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

At our death, by his work on the cross Christ enters hell and calls the wise forth from their earthly families to interim with his family in heaven until the final resurrection call.

Proverbs 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (2 Corinthians 4:14 knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. 2 Corinthians 5:8 we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.) 1 Thessalonians 5:10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Matthew 4:16 the people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Ephesians 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Christ gives use this same power through the Holy Ghost to call people into his family.

John 20:21-23 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

But this power was not given to man until after the resurrection.

John 7:38-39 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Yet the wicked will not be gathered to Christ.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Job 27:8, 19-22 8 For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?...The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not. 20 Terrors take hold on him as waters, a tempest stealeth him away in the night. 21 The east wind carrieth him away, and he departeth: and as a storm hurleth him out of his place. 22 For God shall cast upon him, and not spare: he would fain flee out of his hand.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) shows us how this interment of families occurred before Christ went to intern with his fathers after his death on the cross and then call them out.

The faithful are gathered by the Angels to their fathers. (Jude 9)

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom:

The unfaithful are not gathered by the angels.

the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments,

Yet they can still see and speak with their fathers.

and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Yet their unfaithfulness divided them and prevented them from going were the faithful were.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

The living can hear and chose which side of the gulf they will be placed but the dead cannot.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

When Christ went to hell he went to be with his earthly fathers, he joined them and preached the gospel to them then too the believing to heaven to be with his heavenly father. This provided the way of life for those who died before his glorification and provided the way of life for us all.

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

John 14:2-6 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Hebrews 10:19-20 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Edited by John Young
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Posted

You listed a ton of verses, but due to the section headings you are unclear or perhaps giving a wrong impression.

Abraham’s bosom was a compartment of Hell/sheol, where the souls of the righteous went before Christ died upon the cross for our sins. There is no soul sleep. They were conscious, but could not dwell in the presence of God until the debt was paid. All dead believers were taken out of Abraham’s Bosom (Paradise) after Jesus arose and any believer who dies since then immediately goes into Heaven to be with the Lord (except those who die during the Tribulation period - they will be raised at the start of the Millennium. See Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4-6).

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Posted
1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

So @John Young, are you pushing soul sleep here? We'd appreciate it if you would be clear on your stance. Thanks.

No I'm not. While their bodies sleep in the dust, the Souls are very much awake. As clearly seen in the story about the Rich Man and Lazarus. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Jerry said:

You listed a ton of verses, but due to the section headings you are unclear or perhaps giving a wrong impression.

I'm simply cataloging the process scripturally from the family perspective, beginning to end, showing why and how "Abraham Bosom" actually exists.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, John Young said:

No I'm not. While their bodies sleep in the dust, the Souls are very much awake. As clearly seen in the story about the Rich Man and Lazarus. 

The story about the Rich Man and Lazarus is one I've spent a lot of time thinking about over the years. In particular when I watch videos of Christians street witnessing to JWs. The soul sleep discussion usually goes back and forth with several verses to prove each sides point of view but this story in particular seems to always be used by Christians as sort of the go to "secret weapon" to solidify their position. Even so the other party be it JWs or SDAs almost never seem convinced by it.

I've always wanted to ask others what about this story makes you believe it's a literal story about real people in the afterlife? 

I was reading somewhere that Martin Luther believed Abrahams Bosom was a parable for the Word of God. I've also heard others say it's just a parable about greed and hypocrisy. 

I won't even get into how the JWs interpret it because they HAVE to say it's parable since they've made soul sleep one of their most fundamental beliefs to differient themselves from orthodox beliefs.

Edited by Disciple.Luke
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Disciple.Luke said:

I've also heard other say it's just a parable

I generally take the scriptures as true and accurate. Christ presented the story as true and not as a parable and included a name. Even if it were a parable, in every parable of Jesus they are true and accurate in the practical and spiritual levels even if it is not referring to one particular person. For example, in the parable of the four soils, on the practical level dirt acts on seeds precisely in those ways and on the spiritual level the hearts of mankind are affected precisely in the same manner as the dirt and in the parable of wheat and tares is true and accurate. Seeing that all his parables are true and accurate in every level then I have no reason to think differently as to his description of how Hell works upon the soul of men in the afterlife.

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Posted
32 minutes ago, John Young said:

I generally take the scriptures as true and accurate. Christ presented the story as true and not as a parable and included a name. Even if it were a parable, in every parable of Jesus they are true and accurate in the practical and spiritual levels even if it is not referring to one particular person. For example, in the parable of the four soils, on the practical level dirt acts on seeds precisely in those ways and on the spiritual level the hearts of mankind are affected precisely in the same manner as the dirt and in the parable of wheat and tares is true and accurate. Seeing that all his parables are true and accurate in every level then I have no reason to think differently as to his description of how Hell works upon the soul of men in the afterlife.

Thank you brother John.

I agree that the use of the personal name of Lazarus wouldn't be necessary if he were intending it as a parable.

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Posted
6 hours ago, John Young said:

No I'm not. While their bodies sleep in the dust, the Souls are very much awake. As clearly seen in the story about the Rich Man and Lazarus. 

Thank you for the clarification. 

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