Hateful Christianity????

[BrotherTony]

In talking with several people that I am in contact with through physical therapy, grocery shopping, my wife's place of employment, etc, I have been asked many times why Christians are so hateful when they are talking to people. I asked for examples, and some of them were shocking, many of them being from Baptist pastors, deacons, and laypeople. I'm going to list several of the conversations, abbreviated....

1) A young man my wife works with went to a Baptist church to visit with the possibility of becoming a member with his wife and three children. They visited an I(big "I" little you) FB church. It's a pretty well-known church in the Nashville area. They went to Sunday school where the SS teacher was bashing a local community church pastor ministry because he had allowed a local Gideon missionary to come and speak. He had a great presentation, and he gave the Gospel during his presentation. Two people were saved during the service, but, there was one thing that this IFB pastor had focused on. The Gideon missionary didn't use the KJV, but instead used the ESV, his message being that the fields were all ready to be harvested. This pastor said nothing about the two souls won, nothing about how the Holy Spirit used the ESV in his work. He was so derogatory in his criticism of this local pastor that he ended up losing two of his own members and families who had questioned him on his stances over the past few years. When he talked to the two families it wasn't to try and find out their concerns, it was instead to attack them as heretics, people who were spreading discord among the brethren, which was not the case, and ones who wanted to destroy the KJV and the ministry that they were setting under. Apparently, the pastor felt threatened, and it was very apparent that he felt attacked for no reason....The young man who visited the church with his family (he doesn't use the KJV, but instead uses the NLT, which was used in leading him to the Lord several years ago) was very upset about the things going on. He asked for a few minutes with the pastor, but, the pastor said that since he wasn't a member he didn't owe this man any time, nor did he owe him an explanation. This hasn't been uncommon here in our area. 

2) A young man that I have been in contact with and have been witnessing to has been attending a large IFB church here in the Murfreesboro area. He had come to know the Lord during a service that was run by the Billy Graham program. He was saved several years ago and wanted to be baptized. The leadership in this church who visited him told him and his wife that they questioned the validity of his salvation. The reasons given were that he had made a decision under the ministry of Billy Graham and that Billy Graham was a false prophet. He was taken aback by the things coming from this pastor's mouth, and when the pastor got even more insistent that the man "make sure of his salvation" he ordered the pastor out of his home. He's now a member of the World Outreach Church, a very well-known non-denominational church here in Murfreesboro. Since he joined there he has led four people to the Lord, has been baptized, and is being trained on how to be an SS teacher. He was surprised by the hatefulness and dishonesty that came from the pastor's mouth, and I have to say that I don't blame him. 

Yes, we should be ones to earnestly contend for the faith as told in Jude 1:3. Still, we are to speak the TRUTH in love...not mix our opinions with scripture to fit with our own ideology

These are just two instances. Why is it that Christians are becoming so hateful and deceptive in their presentation of the Gospel? Why is it that many of them don't try to present Christ in such a way  that others humbly and willingly come to church? I find this a very disturbing trend. 

 

[Pastor Matt]

9 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

These are just two instances. Why is it that Christians are becoming so hateful and deceptive in their presentation of the Gospel? Why is it that many of them don't try to present Christ in such a way  that others humbly and willingly come to church? I find this a very disturbing trend. 

I can only speak for myself as I have to give an account of my actions.

Unfortunately you'll hear more about the hate in Christians than the love. I guess you can use the old saying...The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, Pastor Matt said:

I can only speak for myself as I have to give an account of my actions.

Unfortunately you'll hear more about the hate in Christians than the love. I guess you can use the old saying...The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Very true. I've tried to show that there are SOME who are hateful but that the majority are kind, loving people. Still, with the post pandemic church there is a growing trend towards hateful representation. 

[heartstrings]

No love=no "Spirit"

No Word of God = no "Truth" (KJV)

We must have both to please God. If we only hold to one or the other, we have neither.

[BrotherTony]

On 11/17/2023 at 10:11 AM, heartstrings said:

No love=no "Spirit"

No Word of God = no "Truth" (KJV)

We must have both to please God. If we only hold to one or the other, we have neither.

So, you're equating the KJV as the only "truth?" TBH, I only use the KJV in my writing, preaching, and teaching. But, unlike those who hold to the "only" position I am not opposed to people using other translations. Many have "the truth" who have never used the KJV, weren't converted to Christ under the KJV, and who would probably never come to use the KJV. God is not limited to the KJV. Many would love to limit him to their chosen version. But, this conversation is not the purpose of this thread. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by BrotherTony

[Joe Chandler]

John 15:18-25 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. 23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. 25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, Joe Chandler said:

John 15:18-25 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. 23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. 25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

This in no way addresses what I posted. Don't get me wrong, Scripture is good, but many people talking about hateful Christians are Christians. Many inside Christian circles have become hateful in their approach to not only the lost, but towards others inside Christianity as well.

[Joe Chandler]

if you say so.

[SureWord]

If you speak the truth you will be considered hateful in this wacked out country.  There's no way around it. II Chronicles 18:4-17

[Napsterdad]

5 hours ago, SureWord said:

If you speak the truth you will be considered hateful in this wacked out country.  There's no way around it. II Chronicles 18:4-17

I think your Bible reference is a good starting point, but I also believe the problem is much deeper. In this reference all the other prophets were seeking the kings favor and deserved to be castigated, while Micaiah stood by the stuff and rightly took up God's position and was wrongly rebuked. This would be in keeping with Joe Chandler's John 15:18-25 citation.

I don't believe the OP is referring to being 'hated' for being right (although that would be a PART of the issue). I believe BT is referring more to the increasing trend of many Christians who just seem to go off at the slightest SELF-PERCEIVED provocation against their personal standards/beliefs; even against other Christians. If you take some time to think on this, this isn't just a Christian problem, it is societal. We, as a society, have been becoming more and more self-absorbed and self-righteous. Pick just about any topic and search it up on Google and just watch the tirades explode from any number of positions. The social media platforms (Twitter, Facebook, etc.) are 'excellent' venues for such venom to flow freely; and it does.

This multi-faceted problem has been growing for some time. I believe it starts with the Greatest Generation. After WWII, as America was its most prosperous, they wanted their kids to have everything they never had at no cost to the kids. Instant gratification. The advertising community picked up on this and have been bombarding us (especially with the advent of television) with commercials showing us what we must have because the Joneses have it, or we could even buy it and be better than the Joneses. Buy it today, this deal won't last forever. Instant gratification that is all about you.

Then the Bible was removed from schools and with it so was Mark 12:30-31 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

With this came an increasing loss of respect for God (remember blue laws?), respect for others, respect for self, and ultimately respect for life. This, I believe, is at the heart of ALL our issues. Jesus did not say that There is none other commandment greater than these, without cause.

Since then, we (as a society) have become much more self-centered, yet ironically (IMHO), with less self-respect. Remember the days where all men wore suits (or at least decent pants and a button down). Ties were required in most restaurants. Most women wore dresses every day. Appearance mattered. Self-respect. Now few dress properly and most dress 'seemingly' with pure laziness or with the express intent to shock everyone else. How easy this makes it for everyone to look down on everyone else, even though their own standards may be no better.

Add the internet to the mix and now we have social media platforms where people discuss hot (and even not so hot) bed topics with others that they have never met, likely never will meet, and can criticize freely without fear of retribution. Again, Instant gratification that is all about you. Another facet of this is that few are really interested in the details behind the other's position. The only thing important is that you disagree with me and therefore YOU are a moron.

Today face-to-face social interaction is on the wane while social interaction through a screen is on the rise exponentially. But this comes at a great cost. The brusqueness used so frequently now in online conversations is carrying over to the less frequent face-to-face interactions because it is the only way many truly know how to communicate. People are becoming just downright rude. Add Covid to the mix and for a year or more (depending on locality) we have isolated people from each other even more. 

There are many more facets to this problem, but the end result is that many in society today simply do not respect others or their opinions and will not take the time to bridge the gap. Unfortunately, as Christians, while we are supposed to hold ourselves separate, we are still a part of this society and what goes on around us, often very intimately, does have an impact on our lives and the way we handle things. Society has become rude, and unfortunately it has taken many Christians with it. Instant gratification that is all about me has become the rule. Truth is relative to me. I have no time to hear the basis for your opinion because it does not satisfy my need for instant gratification, and it is not about me. You are wrong, I am right. For a Christian, this attitude is anathema, but being a part of this world, it is an attitude that more and more Christians are succumbing to. This does Christianity, and individual Christians, no favors.

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. This is the standard Christians are to live by. To do this we must respect the other person and be willing to hear them out. (This is becoming a lost art.) Yes, they may be wrong, but hear them out and correct with love. You may just find out you have something wrong: that is unless you are perfect, and if you believe you are...welcome to the world.

The Bible version issue BT refers to is a solid case in point. I know quite a few NIV and ESV Christians that would put many KJV Christians to shame. God saved me through a NASB. God loved me even though I did not use a KJV. Jesus died on the cross for me even though I did not use a KJV. Shouldn't we be willing to love our 'non-KJV only' neighbor as ourselves just as God did?

This is just one point where I've seen Christians get downright petulant; there are many more. This is where I believe BT is coming from and it is something I think we all need to take to heart. I've seen on this very forum where Christianity has taken a pretty hateful turn, and, unfortunately, I am not innocent. 

Mark 12:30-31 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I'll get off my soap box now.

[Joe Chandler]

25 minutes ago, Napsterdad said:

This is just one point where I've seen Christians get downright petulant; there are many more. This is where I believe BT is coming from and it is something I think we all need to take to heart. I've seen on this very forum where Christianity has taken a pretty hateful turn, and, unfortunately, I am not innocent. 

Mark 12:30-31 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Ok. We should be kind to each other. I think we can all agree on that. Is someone here not being kind?

[Napsterdad]

22 minutes ago, Joe Chandler said:

Ok. We should be kind to each other. I think we can all agree on that. Is someone here not being kind?

The intent of my post was to answer the OPs question:

On 11/16/2023 at 7:19 AM, BrotherTony said:

Why is it that Christians are becoming so hateful and deceptive in their presentation of the Gospel? Why is it that many of them don't try to present Christ in such a way  that others humbly and willingly come to church? I find this a very disturbing trend. 

 

Also, the Bible does not say 'Thou SHOULD BE KIND to thy neighbor', it says Thou SHALT LOVE thy neighbour. Big difference.

[Joe Chandler]

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

12 minutes ago, Napsterdad said:

Also, the Bible does not say 'Thou SHOULD BE KIND to thy neighbor', it says Thou SHALT LOVE thy neighbour. Big difference.

Charity is another word for love and being kind is an expression of love. So I ask again, is somebody here not being kind? Who exactly is presenting the gospel deceptively or in a mean spirit? I don't see this as a trend in my church.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Joe Chandler

[BrotherTony]

25 minutes ago, Joe Chandler said:

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Charity is another word for love and being kind is an expression of love. So I ask again, is somebody here not being kind? Who exactly is presenting the gospel deceptively or in a mean spirit? I don't see this as a trend in my church.

It goes much further than just presenting the gospel, though that should be our message through all we do. The way Christians approach many subjects and people is often hateful. There are many things we are told in the Word that are wrong. We should stand firm on those things being wrong. But we can also show some grace in how we approach those who are in the world. Being here in the Bible belt many people who name the name of Christ, if they come across a person claiming to be transgender, they talk down to this person trying to make themselves look righteous and the one that they are living a holy life. This is just an example. The same terrible approach with those who are homosexual, or having affairs, or stealing money. It could be applied to any situation. 

[Joe Chandler]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

It goes much further than just presenting the gospel, though that should be our message through all we do. The way Christians approach many subjects and people is often hateful. There are many things we are told in the Word that are wrong. We should stand firm on those things being wrong. But we can also show some grace in how we approach those who are in the world. Being here in the Bible belt many people who name the name of Christ, if they come across a person claiming to be transgender, they talk down to this person trying to make themselves look righteous and the one that they are living a holy life. This is just an example. The same terrible approach with those who are homosexual, or having affairs, or stealing money. It could be applied to any situation. 

No doubt. Colossians 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Joe Chandler
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