Just one more reason

[HappyChristian]

11 hours ago, robmac68 said:

God said it is not wise to be deceived by wine or strong drink.  How are we deceived?  By getting drunk and being excessive.  The drunk smokes more cigs than when sober.  The drunk will spend more money at the gambling tables than sober.  That is why a lot of casinos used to offer free drinks.  I already mentioned above he will drive faster.  The list goes on and on.  This is the person deceived by alcohol.  How is he deceived?  He thinks he is having a good time.  Meanwhile, he wakes up hungover and broke.  Yep!  He is deceived.  

I don't think anyone here is looking for reasons to imbibe, at least I hope not.  I just do not want to call something a sin that is not.  My wife grew up in a church that said roller skating was sin because it was "too entertaining".  Playing "old maid" was sin because it involved cards and all cards are sin because it leads to gambling.  My wife telling our children that roller skating is not a sin is not looking for a reason to skate, she is way to clumsy and would hurt herself, but just trying to stay biblical.

 

LOL...roller skating and playing old maid don't compare in the slightest to alcohol.  I get the principle you're mentioning, but there is no comparison between something God does not mention that men have made tradition and something God does mention that men try to make ok.

I know what God said...and far too many well-meaning people think they've not been deceived by wine or strong drink just because they don't get drunk. But they have. Because they think it's ok in moderation cuz they're strong enough to resist it. And not all drunks smoke at all...I've known people who smoke that smoked multiple packs a day while sober and nothing while drunk...so that's a strawman.

And, yes, when we try to make it ok to drink a little as long as we don't get drunk we ARE trying to justify imbibing.

BTW - God doesn't say smoking is a sin, so it's ok. Right? No? Why? Oh...because of the principles taught in  God's Word about our temples. Same applies to alcohol, which rots the body. 

[HappyChristian]

"It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted..."

Funny that God doesn't say that it's not for kings and princes to BE DRUNK...but that it is not for them to drink. Yes, we know that some folks can take a drink and it doesn't affect their minds. So they think. But then we get to the "how much is too much?" When you're sloppy drunk and falling down, slurring your words?  Or maybe it's subjective, situational (cuz we all know God deals in situational ethics, right? No...)? Y'know, like the man who could drink ONE beer and turn violent...yet display no symptoms at all of being drunk. 

Rev. 1:6 and 5:10 tell us that God has made us kings and priests...It is NOT FOR KINGS to drink wine...as the children of God, we are princes/princesses...is not NOT FOR PRINCES STRONG DRINK.

It is not wise...and that is enough for me.

[Joe Chandler]

On 7/29/2023 at 8:27 PM, TheGloryLand said:

The drunk man said, you left the best wine for last. If it did not have alcohol, I don't think he would not have said this. But, what is impossible for man, is easy for God to do. the drunk mans taste buds, were convinced.

John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

Hey TGL, I think that the expression "and when men have well drunk" may have confused you. It doesn't mean that they were drunk and there is no evidence that the governor of the feast was drunk when he said it. Hope that helps. English and Spanish don't always translate exactly.

[TheGloryLand]

19 hours ago, Joe Chandler said:

John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

Hey TGL, I think that the expression "and when men have well drunk" may have confused you. It doesn't mean that they were drunk and there is no evidence that the governor of the feast was drunk when he said it. Hope that helps. English and Spanish don't always translate exactly.

Thank you for replying, as a former alcoholic/bartender took the class, but never put it to practice. Normally the first drinks best drinks aged, are served first, later replace with a Less quality drink or even watering it down some with ice to make it last. I understand that God does not want a man to become drunken, but it happened in the Bible, and to think that God serve wine with alcohol sounds very evil. This man was satisfied with what was served. 

[SureWord]

So I just read again that wine in the bible was very low in alcohol because distillation wasn't invented until the 8th century BC by an Arab chemist. The wine in the bible was low in alcohol content and was usually mixed 2:1 with water. Sometimes more than that. Socrates mentioned a 20:1 mix.

The wine first drunk at the feast was excessively mixed with water and the stuff less mixed was brought out later.

I guess even the pagans believed drinking undiluted wine was barbaric. Only the notorious Scythians drank undiluted wine.

So, like I heard before, the booze of today, including wine, is much more harsh than the alcohol back in those days. You could get drunk back then but probably from drinking the undiluted stuff or drinking a whole lot of the diluted.

 

[TheGloryLand]

There are many things that Christians should not do, like drinking to much wine or smoking. Eating to much food or taking to much medicine. What we put to much of, into and on our earthly bodies, can be sin. 

[Jerry]

The difference is the Bible teaches that even to look upon alcoholic wine is wrong, to even touch or partake of a little is wrong - it does not say that at all about the other things you mentioned so the comparison is not a good one.

Also, the Bible teaches that prophets, priests and kings were to stay away from alcohol. Jesus was all three and was our example. Christians are two out of those three: kings and priests.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Jerry

[TheGloryLand]

12 minutes ago, Jerry said:

The difference is the Bible teaches that even to look upon alcoholic wine is wrong, to even touch or partake of a little is wrong - it does not say that at all about the other things you mentioned so the comparison is not a good one.

Also, the Bible teaches that prophets, priests and kings were to stay away from alcohol. Jesus was all three and was our example. Christians are two out of those three: kings and priests.

If all those things I mentioned, is done to the body, the temple of the spirit of God. This is not good, for we are picking and choosing what sins are approved.

[Jerry]

It is wrong to put your perceived opinion above direct statements in the Bible. I was not saying other things couldn’t be wrong - I was focussing on the issue of whether consuming alcohol in itself is wrong or not. Taking medication is not wrong - abusing it is. Eating certain foods is not a sin - overeating and being a glutton is. However, the Bible itself forbids the believer from even partaking of a little alcohol.

[TheGloryLand]

In my experience while having wine many years ago, trying to talk about the Bible or Jesus, didn’t go well. You definitely feel like you are doing something wrong. Remember many Countries drink wine, while having their dinner at the table. Are they lost, I don’t think so, my humble opinion.

[BrotherTony]

28 minutes ago, TheGloryLand said:

In my experience while having wine many years ago, trying to talk about the Bible or Jesus, didn’t go well. You definitely feel like you are doing something wrong. Remember many Countries drink wine, while having their dinner at the table. Are they lost, I don’t think so, my humble opinion.

Different interpretations of scripture. European Christians have a different understanding of many of the passages on this subject. Is this the hill I am willing to die on? No. This subject doesn't affect my salvation one way or the other. 

[TheGloryLand]

3 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Different interpretations of scripture. European Christians have a different understanding of many of the passages on this subject. Is this the hill I am willing to die on? No. This subject doesn't affect my salvation one way or the other. 

For we we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Here or over there.

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, TheGloryLand said:

For we we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Here or over there.

Nobody has stated differently.