THE Great BLESSING OF ELECTION

[heartstrings]

I'll third that. Tell us the time and place.

On 5/22/2022 at 3:53 AM, Iconoclast said:

Hello Dave W

I have never read up on Calvin.

I know he was in Geneva.

I read about Jesus, not Calvin.

Calvin lived and died in His time and God is who he will give account to.

Calvinists get their teaching from Jesus and the Apostles. 

Most Calvinists have not read Calvin.

The tulip was derived by those who came after him.

If I can help you with doctrinal questions I will attempt to do so.

It looks like you will not get those answers from those on here as they do not understand the teaching but oppose the truth.one man said men elect themselves???

I will give you answers from scripture. 

You may not like my responses but they will be faithful to the scripture. 

 

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Luke 13:34

 

Wasn't it Jesus who said that? Doesn't sound Calvinistic to me. Sounds more like they chose not to do His will. I mean, if he had "predetermined" that they not do his will? Oh nevermind...........

Yes, I'll third that request for a testimony too.

[Iconoclast]

5 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

I'll third that. Tell us the time and place.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Luke 13:34

 

Wasn't it Jesus who said that? Doesn't sound Calvinistic to me. Sounds more like they chose not to do His will. I mean, if he had "predetermined" that they not do his will? Oh nevermind...........

Yes, I'll third that request for a testimony too.

They ....the leaders and teachers would not offer the biblical Christ to the children. Jesus rebukes them.

Unsaved men will never seek the true God.

They will be religious but not submit to Jesus or His word...

He tells them...ye would not.

HS....if all men everywhere want to repent and believe  the  gospel God would welcome them.

They do not want to.

That is why God in grace and mercy elected  a multitude to come to Jesus.

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast said:

They ....the leaders and teachers would not offer the biblical Christ to the children. Jesus rebukes them.

Unsaved men will never seek the true God.

They will be religious but not submit to Jesus or His word...

He tells them...ye would not.

HS....if all men everywhere want to repent and believe  the  gospel God would welcome them.

They do not want to.

That is why God in grace and mercy elected  a multitude to come to Jesus.

Again, a deflection.....Where is your salvation testimony, Iconoclast? 

[Iconoclast]

3 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Again, a deflection.....Where is your salvation testimony, Iconoclast? 

Where is your scripture?

I was an unsaved RC.

Living in sin.

Bought a second hand bible because Catholics did not use a bible, we used what was called the missal.

I read for about 4 months...knew nothing.

I did not know the numbers were chapter and verse.

Did not know ot nt...nothing.

Eventually found the nt.

Knew some of the stories.

I was doing this in secret, i was ashamed i was reading the bible. Told nobody.

The Spirit of God was convicting me.

Did not know how to pray...just remembered the man in the gospel asking for mercy.That was my prayer, i am guilty,have mercy on me.

Kept reading,cults came

after me right away..mormons, jw,

Called a friend, told me to get kingdom of the cults by walter martin....that started things for me.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

7 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

I was an unsaved RC.

Living in sin.

Bought a second hand bible because Catholics did not use a bible, we used what was called the missal.

I read for about 4 months...knew nothing.

I did not know the numbers were chapter and verse.

Did not know ot nt...nothing.

Eventually found the nt.

Knew some of the stories.

I was doing this in secret, i was ashamed i was reading the bible. Told nobody.

The Spirit of God was convicting me.

Did not know how to pray...just remembered the man in the gospel asking for mercy.That was my prayer, i am guilty,have mercy on me.

Kept reading,cults came

after me right away..mormons, jw,

Called a friend, told me to get kingdom of the cults by walter martin....that started things for me.

Mr. Iconoclast,

Thank you for that testimony of God the Father's drawing in your heart, of God the Holy Spirit's conviction upon your heart, and of God the Son's saving work in your life.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Pastor Scott Markle

[Pastor Scott Markle]

On 5/20/2022 at 7:37 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

. . . showing that the "election" of the Bible is not predicated on "predestination", which would be before the fact of salvation. What you have rightly shown is that instead of the elect being shown as such before their Salvation, they are indeed the elect because of Salvation.

The Calvinist position puts the cart before the horse, so-to-speak. They posture that since God elected the sinner he will be saved, when actually once he has been saved, he is then of the elect.

On 5/20/2022 at 10:23 PM, Iconoclast said:

No Jim...sinners do not elect themselves. This is a falsehood.This is a direct denial of scripture.

On 5/22/2022 at 4:53 AM, Iconoclast said:

one man said men elect themselves???

Actually, that is NOT what Brother Jim said; that is only what you accused him of saying.  What Brother Jim actually said was, "What you have rightly shown is that instead of the elect being shown as such before their Salvation, they are indeed the elect because of Salvation."  This statement only indicates that the elect become the elect by means of God's divine work of salvation.  It says nothing whatsoever about sinners electing themselves.

[heartstrings]

9 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

Where is your scripture?

I was an unsaved RC.

Living in sin.

Bought a second hand bible because Catholics did not use a bible, we used what was called the missal.

I read for about 4 months...knew nothing.

I did not know the numbers were chapter and verse.

Did not know ot nt...nothing.

Eventually found the nt.

Knew some of the stories.

I was doing this in secret, i was ashamed i was reading the bible. Told nobody.

The Spirit of God was convicting me.

Did not know how to pray...just remembered the man in the gospel asking for mercy.That was my prayer, i am guilty,have mercy on me.

Kept reading,cults came

after me right away..mormons, jw,

Called a friend, told me to get kingdom of the cults by walter martin....that started things for me.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Luke 13:34

Interpretation? God's will was for them to come to Him, to believe on Him but they didn't want to. What is the 4th petal of the "tulip"? Isn't it "irresistible" grace? They resisted His grace. People will not accept anything if they don't want to....kind of like you're doing now.

[Jerry]

Aside from the wacky view that Iconoclast gave that stated God was responsible for sin!!, the Bible teaches that God desires and wills mankind/Israel/Gentiles to turn to Him, to trust Him, to rely upon Him - and they would not in many cases. There are many passages that teach this. We can start here:

Acts 7:51-52 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

How about:

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

And some others:

John 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Isaiah 30:15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.

Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

[BrotherTony]

3 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

Where is your scripture?

I was an unsaved RC.

Living in sin.

Bought a second hand bible because Catholics did not use a bible, we used what was called the missal.

I read for about 4 months...knew nothing.

I did not know the numbers were chapter and verse.

Did not know ot nt...nothing.

Eventually found the nt.

Knew some of the stories.

I was doing this in secret, i was ashamed i was reading the bible. Told nobody.

The Spirit of God was convicting me.

Did not know how to pray...just remembered the man in the gospel asking for mercy.That was my prayer, i am guilty,have mercy on me.

Kept reading,cults came

after me right away..mormons, jw,

Called a friend, told me to get kingdom of the cults by walter martin....that started things for me.

Thank you for that clarification. I know when I came to know the Lord, I was at Maranatha Baptist Bible College. I had made a profession of faith years before, but I never really knew if it took. My fiance at the time was a Sr. and ready to graduate from MBBC, and she got saved on April 13, 1983, during our evangelistic meetings on campus with Dr. Tom Williams, a cowboy type preacher! My fiance had discussed our lives several evenings before the crusade began, and we both believed that something was missing in our lives in spite of what we had professed years before. After she got saved, she and several of our friends started praying for me to surrender to the Lord. It was apparent that he was working on me, and conviction was deep. On April 15, 1983, the last night of the crusade, I came to know the Lord as my Lord and savior. I've not been a perfect Christian since then, but, I know I'm saved. 

I'm thankful to know that you say you've been saved. We can only go by people's testimonies and actions. By their fruit ye shall know them.   

[Iconoclast]

14 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Aside from the wacky view that Iconoclast gave that stated God was responsible for sin!!, t

 

17 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Aside from the wacky view that Iconoclast gave that stated God was responsible for sin!!

I never said that, here is what was posted;

1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;

yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;

 

nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )

 

3 hours ago, heartstrings said:

? God's will was for them to come to Him, to believe on Him but they didn't want to. What is the 4th petal of the "tulip"? Isn't it "irresistible" grace? They resisted His grace. People will not accept anything if they don't want to....kind of like you're doing now.

Again you do not understand what you are critical of;

2._____ This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead.
( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )

this call always is effectual.

[Jerry]

Iconoclast, you did very clearly state that in one of the replies you posted - but because of your book length copy/pasting, I cannot find that quote right now (not sure if it was in this thread or another one, though I did try to skim back through the last couple of pages of this thread before I posted this reply). Regardless, that is a statement MANY Calvinists do make, including R C Sproul. I can give you exact book and page numbers for his quotes in that regard. But it doesn't change the fact that it is heresy plain and simple and makes God the author of sin - which He is not! He is the author of salvation, but is not responsible in any way for mankind's sins. He has provided a way to overcome and pay for all of man's sin, but He is not the one who instituted sin - He allowed it, He did not cause or will it.

James 1:13-16 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Apparently, Calvinism is soooo mystical and esoteric, only a true Calvinist can understand it - despite however much time true believers actually spend reading and studying God's Word throughout the years. Hm, maybe if something is sooo complicated, it is not of God!

2 Corinthians 11:2-3 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

[Iconoclast]

20 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Iconoclast, you did very clearly state that in one of the replies you posted - but because of your book length copy/pasting, I cannot find that quote right now (not sure if it was in this thread or another one, though I did try to skim back through the last couple of pages of this thread before I posted this reply). Regardless, that is a statement MANY Calvinists do make, including R C Sproul. I can give you exact book and page numbers for his quotes in that regard. But it doesn't change the fact that it is heresy plain and simple and makes God the author of sin - which He is not! He is the author of salvation, but is not responsible in any way for mankind's sins. He has provided a way to overcome and pay for all of man's sin, but He is not the one who instituted sin - He allowed it, He did not cause or will it.

James 1:13-16 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Apparently, Calvinism is soooo mystical and esoteric, only a true Calvinist can understand it - despite however much time true believers actually spend reading and studying God's Word throughout the years. Hm, maybe if something is sooo complicated, it is not of God!

2 Corinthians 11:2-3 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

your fearless leader has threatened to remove me if I post the truth of calvinism, I will be on Christian chat, or carm where they are not closed minded little bigots like the know nothing BIG JIM.

Big Jim....accuser of the brethren.

If the title of this forum was IGNORANT ONLINE BAPTISTS I WOULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT TO EXPECT.

YOU AND YOUR SMUG SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME.

YOU CONDEMN EVERYONE BUT YOUR LITTLE 5 MEMBER POSSE OF APOSTATES.

SAYING MEN ELECT THEMSELVES, SAVE THEMSELVES , SPURGEON DAGG AND ALL CALVINISTS are heretics are over the top. YOU DID POST YOU JUST NEED YOUR BIBLE AND THE SPIRIT...Yeah, you are full of yourself.

I can here to help, but you BIG JIM ARE READY TO CENSOR ME IF i PRESENT THE HISTORIC FAITH, TELLING ME  NOT TO PRESENT HISTORIC TRUTH ,WHEN YOU AND EVERYONE WHO POSTS ON HERE ARE BLIND AS BATS.

I have dealt with online morons before on two other sites. You cannot answer the historic faith.

Supposed pastor scott opposes the words of Jesus. Tony cannot use a verse and yes Tony I remember you from other sites where you did the same empty accusations, but Cals were not silenced like Big JIM wants...

Big Jim, Big hypocrite.

Jim you are impressed with your title a ADMINISTRATOR,LOL YOU ARE SO Full of yourself, but not once could you give an answer. So you silence anyone who challenges your little posse.....you cannot answer so you censor.

It was you who have been hostile from your first post to me , as well as all your little posse, no wonder this forum has like 10-11 people. Closed minded bigots, attacking anyone who offers anything.

You mock the few quotes offered and yet you could not provide anything close to what was written.

Enjoy your little echo chamber.

You desire to Censor me, so soon I will start my own site, where small minded hypocrites like you cannot censor the historic faith, and I will comment on posts from this site and point out the Christ dishonoring heresies that get put out in public. 

BIG JIM GETS TO CENSOR TRUTH HERE,BUT THE TRUTH WILL WIN OUT. 

 

[Jerry]

I guess he was not one of the elect after all!

[BrotherTony]

2 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I guess he was not one of the elect after all!

This is a typical tyrade from him. On other forums he attacks, degrades, deflect, and has temper tantrums. I would have thought he'd grown up over th past 10-15 years. I guess I was mistaken. 

[Pastor Scott Markle]

James 3:13-18 -- "Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you?  Let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.  But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.  This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.  For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.  But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.  And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace."