Jehovah witness invited me to their Easter Service

[Invicta]

Someone I know, Mike Moore,  an evangelist to the Jews,  who wrote a lot against JWs,  was invited to speak at one of their services. He went and preached the gospel. They said "We agree to differ." He said "NO WE WON'T!"

[HappyChristian]

I don't think it's wise for a young person to trade services, but for someone who is steady in the faith like Invicta, it could be a tool. JW's as a general rule meet 2 times per week, Friday or Saturday being a day many choose (as well as Sun am). So someone could visit a JW service and still not miss their own.  It would have been interesting to hear his reaction to your pastor's message, Invicta. Good for you to be upfront with him about beliefs. 

lI

[Invicta]

20 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

You're right to question that action. I don't believe it's ever right to make that offer possibly compromising the validity of ones attempts at evangelizing to this group of people.

I knew he wouldn't come. That is why I put it in that order.

[Invicta]

6 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

I don't think it's wise for a young person to trade services, but for someone who is steady in the faith like Invicta, it could be a tool. JW's as a general rule meet 2 times per week, Friday or Saturday being a day many choose (as well as Sun am). So someone could visit a JW service and still not miss their own.  It would have been interesting to hear his reaction to your pastor's message, Invicta. Good for you to be upfront with him about beliefs. 

 

NWT John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word  was a god.

 Question.  So you  believe in 2 gods?  They will probably say  no, but won't expand.

NWT John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 

Question.  Is Jesus then a true God or a false God. I have not yet asked them that.

NWT used for illustration purposes only. They wont accept other translations. 

I also have photocopies of several of their magazines showing a cross inside a crown the last in the beginning of 1931, but the later 1931 doesn't.  They say Jesus was nailed to a stake not a cross. They say the cross is a pagan symbol which churches use. My answer to that would be "Of course it is, Jesus was crucified by the Roman's and they were pagans. Jews were crucified by Antiochus Epiphanes and he was an arch pagan." 

I also have pages from one their publications, Thy Kingdom Come page 223. 1906 edition  "That the deliverance of the saints must take place some time before 1914 is manifest, ..." 1916 edition "That the deliverance of the saints  must take place soon after 1914 is manifest, ..."  Spot the difference. 

Another sheet  of theirs "Who Will Conquer the WORLD in the 1970s".  The date has now changed  again to 1975. "As one brother said  "Stay  alive till Seventy-Five"." It boasts that since 1973 they had record numbers of Pioneers.   Another quote from that paper; "Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer services." 

The first Christian forum I went on had a number of ex JWs . One , Eddie, said he gave up his job and became a part time window cleaner to allow him time to proclaim that this system would end  in 1975.  He said 1975 came and went and the job  ruined his  health.

I think after 1975 their numbers dropped dramatically.  I believe the Armstrong Worldwide Church of God also taught that and had a Publication  1975 Iin prophecy. 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Invicta

[BrotherTony]

13 minutes ago, Invicta said:

NWT John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word  was a god.

 Question.  So you  believe in 2 gods?  They will probably say  no, but won't expand.

NWT John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 

Question.  Is Jesus then a true God or a false God. I have not yet asked them that.

NWT used for illustration purposes only. They wont accept other translations. 

I also have photocopies of several of their magazines showing a cross inside a crown the last in the beginning of 1931, but the later 1931 doesn't.  They say Jesus was nailed to a stake not a cross. They say the cross is a pagan symbol which churches use. My answer to that would be "Of course it is, Jesus was crucified by the Roman's and they were pagans. Jews were crucified by Antiochus Epiphanes and he was an arch pagan." 

I also have pages from one their publications, Thy Kingdom Come page 223. 1906 edition  "That the deliverance of the saints must take place some time before 1914 is manifest, ..." 1916 edition "That the deliverance of the saints  must take place soon after 1914 is manifest, ..."  Spot the difference. 

Another sheet  of theirs "Who Will Conquer the WORLD in the 1970s".  The date has now changed  again to 1975. "As one brother said  "Stay  alive till Seventy-Five"." It boasts that since 1973 they had record numbers of Pioneers.   Another quote from that paper; "Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer services." 

The first Christian forum I went on had a number of ex JWs . One , Eddie, said he gave up his job and became a part time window cleaner to allow him time to proclaim that this system would end  in 1975.  He said 1975 came and went and the job  ruined his  health.

I think after 1975 their numbers dropped dramatically.  I believe the Armstrong Worldwide Church of God also taught that and had a Publication  1975 Iin prophecy. 

 

 

I have a lady who I have personally known most of my life who is a former JW and who is famous for her writings on them and their religion. She is an author and debater with JWs and has built a reputation for being able to reach some of them with the Gospel. Her name is Sharon Williams from Pekin, Illinois. She doesn't recommend the average Christian get into debates with them, but to refer them to someone who deals with people held prisoner by cultic doctrine.

[Invicta]

I went to Aldi this morning and passed the usual JW pitch. There was only one elderly lady there and I spoke to her and asked some questions. Another lady turned up with their stall.  Instead of setting up their stall. She saw me and immediately said to the other lady come on we'll go for a cup of coffee. I actually wasn't intending to go to Aldi but to the outlet centre. However I went over the footbridge over the river instead of turning right and going along the riverside path. But I got to the outlet centre after Aldi by going along the road to the next junction and could pick up the path a few yards down, but it is a very busy junction and I dont like crossing it on my mobility scooter.

On the way back I passed the two JW ladies, who refused to look at me, they kept talking to each other as if I wasn't there. 

I was trying to think of the verse where,  I think it was Paul, said, something like always be prepared to defend your faith, but I can't remember. As someone said, "My memory is what I forget with." 

 

 

 

[TheGloryLand]

6 hours ago, Invicta said:

I went to Aldi this morning and passed the usual JW pitch. There was only one elderly lady there and I spoke to her and asked some questions. Another lady turned up with their stall.  Instead of setting up their stall. She saw me and immediately said to the other lady come on we'll go for a cup of coffee. I actually wasn't intending to go to Aldi but to the outlet centre. However I went over the footbridge over the river instead of turning right and going along the riverside path. But I got to the outlet centre after Aldi by going along the road to the next junction and could pick up the path a few yards down, but it is a very busy junction and I dont like crossing it on my mobility scooter.

On the way back I passed the two JW ladies, who refused to look at me, they kept talking to each other as if I wasn't there. 

I was trying to think of the verse where,  I think it was Paul, said, something like always be prepared to defend your faith, but I can't remember. As someone said, "My memory is what I forget with." 

 

 

 

They see truth in you, and are aware. Yes, our memories do slip on all of us. But sometimes it’s for the better. My silence, and looking into their eyes, made them not visit me anymore.

[Disciple.Luke]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:24 PM, Invicta said:

NWT John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word  was a god.

 Question.  So you  believe in 2 gods?  They will probably say  no, but won't expand.

NWT John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 

Question.  Is Jesus then a true God or a false God. I have not yet asked them that.

NWT used for illustration purposes only. They wont accept other translations. 

I also have photocopies of several of their magazines showing a cross inside a crown the last in the beginning of 1931, but the later 1931 doesn't.  They say Jesus was nailed to a stake not a cross. They say the cross is a pagan symbol which churches use. My answer to that would be "Of course it is, Jesus was crucified by the Roman's and they were pagans. Jews were crucified by Antiochus Epiphanes and he was an arch pagan." 

I also have pages from one their publications, Thy Kingdom Come page 223. 1906 edition  "That the deliverance of the saints must take place some time before 1914 is manifest, ..." 1916 edition "That the deliverance of the saints  must take place soon after 1914 is manifest, ..."  Spot the difference. 

Another sheet  of theirs "Who Will Conquer the WORLD in the 1970s".  The date has now changed  again to 1975. "As one brother said  "Stay  alive till Seventy-Five"." It boasts that since 1973 they had record numbers of Pioneers.   Another quote from that paper; "Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer services." 

The first Christian forum I went on had a number of ex JWs . One , Eddie, said he gave up his job and became a part time window cleaner to allow him time to proclaim that this system would end  in 1975.  He said 1975 came and went and the job  ruined his  health.

I think after 1975 their numbers dropped dramatically.  I believe the Armstrong Worldwide Church of God also taught that and had a Publication  1975 Iin prophecy. 

 

 

In every Kingdom Hall I've visited there is always a private meeting room that also serves as library of bookshelves filled with a single copy of all the old books. 

At the first Kingdom Hall I visited they had all six volumes of Charles Taze Russell's Studies In the Scriptures book set up right in the middle of the table where people say for private meetings.

They have to know that not only did Russell use the the crown and cross symbol but just a few pages into into the first volume book called the Divine Plan of the Ages there is fold out page diagram of the measurements of the Egyptian pyramids show how Russell used them to come up with date like 1914.

A great way to find apologetics topics to use against JWs is by visiting the Bible Students Movements websites. The modern students are mostly descendants of Russell's early followers who refused to accept the leadership of Judge Rutherford after Russell died. 

While they are some similarities in beliefs the Bible Students stuck with Russell's original teachings so they don't refuse later doctrines about blood transfusions, rejecting the cross, shunning, all holidays are evil, and many of them still use the KJV and for sure none of them use the Watchtower New World Translation.

There are several groups still around that are mostly based on location and still meet in members houses. Some of the ones with websites I'd look up are the Dawn Bible Students, Chicago Bible Students, the Columbus Student Movement.

[Invicta]

On 8/5/2023 at 2:48 AM, Disciple.Luke said:

In every Kingdom Hall I've visited there is always a private meeting room that also serves as library of bookshelves filled with a single copy of all the old books. 

At the first Kingdom Hall I visited they had all six volumes of Charles Taze Russell's Studies In the Scriptures book set up right in the middle of the table where people say for private meetings.

They have to know that not only did Russell use the the crown and cross symbol but just a few pages into into the first volume book called the Divine Plan of the Ages there is fold out page diagram of the measurements of the Egyptian pyramids show how Russell used them to come up with date like 1914.

A great way to find apologetics topics to use against JWs is by visiting the Bible Students Movements websites. The modern students are mostly descendants of Russell's early followers who refused to accept the leadership of Judge Rutherford after Russell died. 

While they are some similarities in beliefs the Bible Students stuck with Russell's original teachings so they don't refuse later doctrines about blood transfusions, rejecting the cross, shunning, all holidays are evil, and many of them still use the KJV and for sure none of them use the Watchtower New World Translation.

There are several groups still around that are mostly based on location and still meet in members houses. Some of the ones with websites I'd look up are the Dawn Bible Students, Chicago Bible Students, the Columbus Student Movement.

They used the cross and crown till 1931. At the beginning of the year they han it on the Watchtower and at the end of the year it was gone.

[Guest]

I'm not one that calls JW'S a false religion.  I would call them a heretical Christian churh.  

[Jerry]

There is nothing Biblical or Christian about them. They are a cult, false religion. No other way to put it and still be truthful!

Edited August 14, 2023 by Jerry

[BrotherTony]

59 minutes ago, Muckah said:

I'm not one that calls JW'S a false religion.  I would call them a heretical Christian churh.  

If they're "a heretical Christian church," they're a false religion. They preach another Jesus than the Apostles preached and that is presented in Scripture. The Bible says that they should be accursed.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Jerry said:

There is nothing Biblical or Christian about them. They are a cult, false religion. No other way to put it and still be truthful!

I have to disagree that there's nothing biblical or Christian about them. I worked with Catholic's, JW'S and Mormons and most often - they're better Christians than the Baptist I know quite well.

A person's church denomination doesn't save or condemn them.  Salvation is based individually.  They believe in Jesus and I don't think we should be passing judgment on anybody.

If they are a cult, then so is Trinitarianism.

11 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

If they're "a heretical Christian church," they're a false religion. They preach another Jesus than the Apostles preached and that is presented in Scripture. The Bible says that they should be accursed.

Not true.  Heresy is OPINION and all different than a false religion. There are damnable and un-damnable heresies.  AND - very few damnable ones. What's this other 'Jesus' you're talking about?  What should they be accursed for?

Edited August 14, 2023 by Muckah

[BrotherTony]

14 minutes ago, Muckah said:

I have to disagree that there's nothing biblical or Christian about them. I worked with Catholic's, JW'S and Mormons and most often - they're better Christians than the Baptist I know quite well.

A person's church denomination doesn't save or condemn them.  Salvation is based individually.  They believe in Jesus and I don't think we should be passing judgment on anybody.

If they are a cult, then so is Trinitarianism.

Not true.  Heresy is OPINION and all different than a false religion. There are damnable and un-damnable heresies.  AND - very few damnable ones. What's this other 'Jesus' you're talking about?  What should they be accursed for?

No... heretical teaching is quite clearly laid out by the Apostle Paul. He clearly states that if he, or an angel from Heaven, or any other creature presents a Jesus other than what Scriptures lay out, they're heretical. Heresy isn't "opinion" at all. Mormons and others may seem to have Christian likenesses and actions, but, this in no way makes them Christian any more than my living in a garage would make me a car.

[BrotherTony]

29 minutes ago, Muckah said:

I have to disagree that there's nothing biblical or Christian about them. I worked with Catholic's, JW'S and Mormons and most often - they're better Christians than the Baptist I know quite well.

A person's church denomination doesn't save or condemn them.  Salvation is based individually.  They believe in Jesus and I don't think we should be passing judgment on anybody.

If they are a cult, then so is Trinitarianism.

Not true.  Heresy is OPINION and all different than a false religion. There are damnable and un-damnable heresies.  AND - very few damnable ones. What's this other 'Jesus' you're talking about?  What should they be accursed for?

It appears that you're not very well acquainted with your Bible. I suggest you read Galatians 1. Paul says that if anybody is preaching a different gospel than the one that the apostles are presenting that they are to be accursed. This is heresy.