Being Saved From What ? From "A World Under Water"

Martyr_4_FutureJoy · August 5, 2021

"To many of us the form of that second sentence comes as a surprise. Jesus did not say that he who believes and is saved shall be baptized. No, he put it the other way round. He who believes and is baptized, he said, shall be saved. It is only at our peril that we change something that the Lord has said into something that he did not say.

Everything he says matters, and he means every word of it. But if this is so, then it must be a fact that only by having faith in him and being baptized are we saved. Some will be puzzled at this. What do you mean? they will protest. But do not puzzle; and do not blame me! I did not say that; my Lord said it. He it was who laid down the order: faith, then baptism, then salvation. We must not reverse it to faith, salvation, baptism, however much we might prefer it that way. What the Lord said must stand, and it is for us only to pay heed to it.

(I make no apology for taking these words of Mark 16:16 as authentic words of Jesus, though I am aware that there are critics who question them. Once in a country village I came across a tailor named Chen. He had picked up a Gospel of Mark, and when he reached this passage which the critics all affirm does not belong to that Gospel at all, he believed and trusted in the Lord. There were no other Christians in the place and so no one to baptize him. What should he do? Then he read verse 20. God himself would confirm to him his word: that was sufficient. So in his simplicity he decided to test out one of the promises in verse 18. Accordingly he visited several neighbors who were sick. After prayer, he laid hands on them in Jesus' name and then returned home. In due course and without exception, he told me, they recovered. That satisfied him. With his faith confirmed he carried quietly on with his tailoring, where, when I came across him, he was faithfully witnessing to his Lord. If he could take God's word seriously, must not I?)"

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1912

Jerry · September 20, 2021

So you are an unsaved man who is trusting in another gospel, a gospel of works, to save you. Faith plus water baptism.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

There are two possible definitions of this verse, based on the Biblical usage of the word "for" here:

1) To be baptized in order to be saved/forgiven.

2) To be baptized because our sins are forgiven through faith in Christ.

How do we know which interpretation is true? The Bible never contradicts itself, and everywhere else it only teaches one Gospel for salvation - therefore a gospel of faith plus baptism is obviously arriving at a wrong conclusion and making the Bible disagree with itself.

BrotherTony · September 21, 2021

On 8/5/2021 at 10:12 AM, Martyr_4_FutureJoy said:

"To many of us the form of that second sentence comes as a surprise. Jesus did not say that he who believes and is saved shall be baptized. No, he put it the other way round. He who believes and is baptized, he said, shall be saved. It is only at our peril that we change something that the Lord has said into something that he did not say.

Everything he says matters, and he means every word of it. But if this is so, then it must be a fact that only by having faith in him and being baptized are we saved. Some will be puzzled at this. What do you mean? they will protest. But do not puzzle; and do not blame me! I did not say that; my Lord said it. He it was who laid down the order: faith, then baptism, then salvation. We must not reverse it to faith, salvation, baptism, however much we might prefer it that way. What the Lord said must stand, and it is for us only to pay heed to it.

(I make no apology for taking these words of Mark 16:16 as authentic words of Jesus, though I am aware that there are critics who question them. Once in a country village I came across a tailor named Chen. He had picked up a Gospel of Mark, and when he reached this passage which the critics all affirm does not belong to that Gospel at all, he believed and trusted in the Lord. There were no other Christians in the place and so no one to baptize him. What should he do? Then he read verse 20. God himself would confirm to him his word: that was sufficient. So in his simplicity he decided to test out one of the promises in verse 18. Accordingly he visited several neighbors who were sick. After prayer, he laid hands on them in Jesus' name and then returned home. In due course and without exception, he told me, they recovered. That satisfied him. With his faith confirmed he carried quietly on with his tailoring, where, when I came across him, he was faithfully witnessing to his Lord. If he could take God's word seriously, must not I?)"

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1912

Improper interpretation of the the Scriptures here...you're taking one verse and trying to create a whole doctrine out of it....Read the whole passage. That next phrase says that "he who BELIEVETH NOT shall be damned." You need to learn context and content, Jeff. If the baptism was a part of all of it (baptism only being an outward expression of an inward change) along with the salvation FOR salvation, then Christ would have quoted it in the second part of that passage. If the BAPTISM was part of salvation, then the thief on the cross wouldn't be in paradise with Christ. It doesn't follow here, Jeff. You need to learn some theology.

SureWord · September 21, 2021

In this instance #1 is correct.

Never bend the scripture to fit your preconceived Baptist doctrine.

Now at this present time the gospel is grace through faith without any water involved but it wasn't that way when Peter preached in Acts 2 to a bunch of Jews still looking for their Messiah. They needed to repent, believe on the name of Christ and then be Baptized just as they did under John the Baptist's ministry. This was a national repentance of God's people. It was a second chance for Israel but they blew it. They would have been saved at the coming of Jesus Christ which would have immediately taken place had they prepared themselves. Hebrews 9:28

Jerry · September 21, 2021

Wow, another unsaved frequent poster on these boards. If water baptism was essential for salvation, why is it only mentioned once in the Bible? Seems a pretty big omission when it comes to the salvation of the human race.

BrotherTony · September 21, 2021

4 hours ago, SureWord said:

In this instance #1 is correct.

Never bend the scripture to fit your preconceived Baptist doctrine.

Now at this present time the gospel is grace through faith without any water involved but it wasn't that way when Peter preached in Acts 2 to a bunch of Jews still looking for their Messiah. They needed to repent, believe on the name of Christ and then be Baptized just as they did under John the Baptist's ministry. This was a national repentance of God's people. It was a second chance for Israel but they blew it. They would have been saved at the coming of Jesus Christ which would have immediately taken place had they prepared themselves. Hebrews 9:28

Operative first word...REPENT...COMMA! The command to be baptized was to show that these people had truly repented....I hate to say it SureWord, but you somehow seem to miss the point of this Scripture. You'd still have to look back to the thief on the cross when Christ told him he'd be in paradise with him that day. There was NO WAY that thief was going to be baptized...you've GOT to compare Scripture with Scripture and NOT try to twist the Word to fit what you want. Context and content....Always context and content. It' appalling to find so many people who have such lax exegesis of Scriptures! No wonder so many churches are floundering!

Pastor Scott Markle · September 22, 2021

On 8/5/2021 at 11:12 AM, Martyr_4_FutureJoy said:

Everything he says matters, and he means every word of it.

On 9/21/2021 at 5:51 AM, BrotherTony said:

Improper interpretation of the the Scriptures here...you're taking one verse and trying to create a whole doctrine out of it....Read the whole passage. That next phrase says that "he who BELIEVETH NOT shall be damned."

Indeed, let us claim that EVERYTHING which Christ said matters; but then let us ignore an entire half of the verse. If everything that Christ said really mattered, then it would be necessary to consider the ENTIRE sentence of the verse, and to demonstrate the grammatical and contextual relationship of the second half of the verse to the first half of the verse.

Jim_Alaska · September 23, 2021

Acts 2:21 (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 (KJV) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 4:12 (KJV) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 11:14 (KJV) Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 15:11 (KJV) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Romans 5:9 (KJV) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13 (KJV) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Isaiah 45:22 (KJV) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

BrotherTony · September 23, 2021

9 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Acts 2:21 (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 (KJV) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 4:12 (KJV) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 11:14 (KJV) Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 15:11 (KJV) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Romans 5:9 (KJV) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13 (KJV) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Isaiah 45:22 (KJV) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Jim, thanks for posting these! I had started to, but I was indisposed for a while, and then I was on the phone with relatives concerning a friend who passed away yesterday. Blessings.