God is not in all his thoughts.

[Ukulelemike]

1 hour ago, Hugh_Flower said:

Do you believe Heaven is a physical realm? 

No, I don't. Can the physical exist there? I suppose in a fashion-we know that Enoch went up in body, as did Elijah, but we don't know what their situation is-God can, of course, do as He pleases, as he created all physics, He can manipulate them to His will as desired. But since God is Spirit, the saints are in the spirit, angels are spirits, and since God exists outside of time, I don't see how it could be physical, at least in how we understand physical.

I know God is preparing a place for us, the New Jerusalem, which will descend from Heaven, but again, that doesn't mean Heaven is physical. And honestly, what do we really know about physical vs spiritual, when dealing with realms outside of our knowledge and ken? It is of a substance that we don't have context to understand.

[Hugh_Flower]

5 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

No, I don't. Can the physical exist there? I suppose in a fashion-we know that Enoch went up in body, as did Elijah, but we don't know what their situation is-God can, of course, do as He pleases, as he created all physics, He can manipulate them to His will as desired. But since God is Spirit, the saints are in the spirit, angels are spirits, and since God exists outside of time, I don't see how it could be physical, at least in how we understand physical.

I know God is preparing a place for us, the New Jerusalem, which will descend from Heaven, but again, that doesn't mean Heaven is physical. And honestly, what do we really know about physical vs spiritual, when dealing with realms outside of our knowledge and ken? It is of a substance that we don't have context to understand.

I agree with what your saying, and I was trying to get us to that point. We don't really know. But from what I have seen in the Bible, angels eat food, and Satan has taken the physical form of a snake. I would never argue my point as truth, nor would I even say I am convicted on it. But I believe it's a fascinating topic that brings wonder to Heaven and Jesus.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Hugh_Flower

[Alan]

Here is some information that I have gleaned on Transhumanism and Max More (O'Connor).

1. Max More Biography. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_More

Max More, born as, Max T. O’Connor, was the CEO of the, ‘Alcor Life Extension Foundation’ based in Scottsdale, Arizona. Currently, Max More, is the current president Ambassador and President Emeritus (as of February 2021) of the Alcor Life Extension Foundation.

2. Max More’s Website.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040613102727/http://maxmore.com/

3. The Alcor Foundation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcor_Life_Extension_Foundation

Max More, born as Max T. O’Connor), was the CEO of the, ‘Alcor Life Extension Foundation’ based in Scottsdale, Arizona. Currently, Max More, is the current president Ambassador and President Emeritus (as of February 2021) of the Alcor Life Extension Foundation.

“The Alcor Life Extension Foundation, most often referred to as Alcor, is an American nonprofit organization based in Scottsdale, Arizona, United States. Alcor advocates for, researches, and performs cryonics, the freezing of human corpses and brains in liquid nitrogen after legal death, with hopes of resurrecting and restoring them to full health in the event some new technology can be developed in the future. Cryonics is regarded with skepticism within the mainstream scientific community and has been characterized as quackery and pseudoscience.” ¹

4. Wikipedia article on ‘Extropianism.’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extropianism#The_Extropy_Institute

“Originated by a set of principles developed by the philosopher Max More, The Principles of Entropy, extropian thinking places strong emphasis on rational thinking and on practical optimism. According to More, these principles "do not specify particular beliefs, technologies, or policies". Extropians share an optimistic view of the future, expecting considerable advances in computational power, life extension, nanotechnology and the like. Many extropians foresee the eventual realization of indefinite lifespans, and the recovery, thanks to future advances in biomedical technology or mind uploading, of those whose bodies/brains have been preserved by means of cryonics.” ²

Definition of ‘Extropy’: ‘Entropy.’

“The term 'extropy', as an antonym to 'entropy' was used in a 1967 academic volume discussing cryogenics and in a 1978 academic volume of cybernetics. Diane Duane was the first to use the term "extropy" to signify a potential transhuman destiny for humanity.[5] Also published in 1983 was J. Neil Schulman's Prometheus Award winning novel, The Rainbow Cadenza which used the term "extropic" as a type of scale in visual music. 'Extropy' as coined by Tom Bell (T. O. Morrow) and defined by Max More in 1988, is "the extent of a living or organizational system's intelligence, functional order, vitality, energy, life, experience, and capacity and drive for improvement and growth."[citation needed] Extropy is not a rigorously defined technical term in philosophy or science; in a metaphorical sense, it simply expresses the opposite of entropy.”³

5. Journal: ‘The Journal of Transhumanist Thought.’

6. Wikipedia Article on Transhumanism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism

Definition of ‘Transhumanism by Wikipedia, “Transhumanism is a philosophical movement the proponents of which advocate the enhancement of the human condition by developing and making widely available sophisticated technologies able to greatly enhance longevity, mood and cognitive abilities.”⁴

 

1 Wikipedia, Alcor Life Extension Foundation, Accessed on: 10 March 2021. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcor_Life_Extension_Foundation; Internet.

2 Wikipedia, Extropianism, Accessed on: 10 March 2021. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extropianism#The_Extropy_Institute; Internet.

3 Wikipedia, Extropianism, Accessed on: 10 March 2021. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extropianism#The_Extropy_Institute; Internet.

4 Wikipedia, Transhumanism, Accessed on: 10 March 2021. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism; Internet.

 

[Ukulelemike]

16 hours ago, Hugh_Flower said:

I agree with what your saying, and I was trying to get us to that point. We don't really know. But from what I have seen in the Bible, angels eat food, and Satan has taken the physical form of a snake. I would never argue my point as truth, nor would I even say I am convicted on it. But I believe it's a fascinating topic that brings wonder to Heaven and Jesus.

I get that-in the end, we really can't say, with certainty, what Heaven or even hell exactly are.

The one thing I would question in your statement, is, did Satan take the physical form of a serpent, or did he possess it, as we see legion was sent into a herd of swine? 

And just to thrown some good-natured and unnecessary fuel on the fire, is a serpent, a snake? There are many legged lizards that crawl on their bellies. Did the serpent LOSE its legs, or was it just pushed down into the dust? Or was this particular serpent of a kind that doesn't even exist anymore? Perhaps one of the animals we might consider a dinosaur by today's standards?  I throw this out there, just because I have always been fascinated by reptiles. And again, we really don't know for sure. 

[Alan]

Brethren,

I belong to two internet Linux forums. On both of the forums there has been ongoing discussions on AI (Artificial Intelligence). AI is one of the technological advances that the Transhumanist hopes to be able to extend their life existence through the uploading of computer AI into their organic brains or, “Mind Uploading.”

Here is just one example of what is being discussed on these Linux forums. I will quote from an individual named ‘Enorbet,’

“There is literally zero evidence we were created by some higher being and what's more it is entirely possible, even quite likely, that AI will catch up and then exceed human intelligence. If it turns out to be true that some higher consciousness willfully created humans, there is also zero evidence we could ever catch up let alone exceed our creator(s). Some wise people even ponder whether or not it was a near certainty that given intelligence and reason, AI would be created and ultimately be either incorporated into a kind of bionic humans or complete absorption of organic forms, possibly eliminating organics altogether in time, not likely in The Terminator scenario but by choice.”¹

This is the Wikipedia definition of ‘Mind Uploading.’

“Mind uploading, also known as whole brain emulation (WBE), is the hypothetical futuristic process of scanning a physical structure of the brain accurately enough to create an emulation of the mental state (including long-term memory and "self") and copying it to a computer in a digital form. The computer would then run a simulation of the brain's information processing, such that it would respond in essentially the same way as the original brain and experience having a sentient conscious mind.”²

The technological advances of AI computer software program creators have the hope of replacing the organic brain.

“Mind uploading may potentially be accomplished by either of two methods: copy-and-upload or copy-and-delete by gradual replacement of neurons (which can be considered as a gradual destructive uploading), until the original organic brain no longer exists and a computer program emulating the brain takes control over the body.”³

Mind-Uploading, through AI software programs, is one of the primary goals of the Futurists and the Transhumanist Movement.

“Among some futurists and within the part of transhumanist movement, mind uploading is treated as an important proposed life extension technology. Some believe mind uploading is humanity's current best option for preserving the identity of the species, as opposed to cryonics.”⁴

Hope the above information gives you a better understanding of ‘transhumanism’ according to the definition, and goals, of the transhumanist.

Alan

1Enorbet, Faith and Religion, (linuxquestions.org: Post #9044, Date Posted: 09.19.19, Accessed on: 11March 2021.

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/general-10/the-faith-and-religion-mega-thread-

600689/page603.html#post6038117; Internet.

2Wikipedia, Mind Uploading, Accessed on: 11 March 21. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading; Internet.

3Wikipedia, Mind Uploading, Accessed on: 11 March 21. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading; Internet.

4Wikipedia, Mind Uploading, Accessed on: 11 March 21. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading; Internet.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Alan
added the word 'definition' & date

[Hugh_Flower]

8 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

I get that-in the end, we really can't say, with certainty, what Heaven or even hell exactly are.

The one thing I would question in your statement, is, did Satan take the physical form of a serpent, or did he possess it, as we see legion was sent into a herd of swine? 

And just to thrown some good-natured and unnecessary fuel on the fire, is a serpent, a snake? There are many legged lizards that crawl on their bellies. Did the serpent LOSE its legs, or was it just pushed down into the dust? Or was this particular serpent of a kind that doesn't even exist anymore? Perhaps one of the animals we might consider a dinosaur by today's standards?  I throw this out there, just because I have always been fascinated by reptiles. And again, we really don't know for sure. 

Well, who was punished Satan or the Serpent?  

45 minutes ago, Alan said:

Brethren,

I belong to two internet Linux forums. On both of the forums there has been ongoing discussions on AI (Artificial Intelligence). AI is one of the technological advances that the Transhumanist hopes to be able to extend their life existence through the uploading of computer AI into their organic brains or, “Mind Uploading.”

Here is just one example of what is being discussed on these Linux forums. I will quote from an individual named ‘Enorbet,’

“There is literally zero evidence we were created by some higher being and what's more it is entirely possible, even quite likely, that AI will catch up and then exceed human intelligence. If it turns out to be true that some higher consciousness willfully created humans, there is also zero evidence we could ever catch up let alone exceed our creator(s). Some wise people even ponder whether or not it was a near certainty that given intelligence and reason, AI would be created and ultimately be either incorporated into a kind of bionic humans or complete absorption of organic forms, possibly eliminating organics altogether in time, not likely in The Terminator scenario but by choice.”¹

This is the Wikipedia definition of ‘Mind Uploading.’

“Mind uploading, also known as whole brain emulation (WBE), is the hypothetical futuristic process of scanning a physical structure of the brain accurately enough to create an emulation of the mental state (including long-term memory and "self") and copying it to a computer in a digital form. The computer would then run a simulation of the brain's information processing, such that it would respond in essentially the same way as the original brain and experience having a sentient conscious mind.”²

The technological advances of AI computer software program creators have the hope of replacing the organic brain.

“Mind uploading may potentially be accomplished by either of two methods: copy-and-upload or copy-and-delete by gradual replacement of neurons (which can be considered as a gradual destructive uploading), until the original organic brain no longer exists and a computer program emulating the brain takes control over the body.”³

Mind-Uploading, through AI software programs, is one of the primary goals of the Futurists and the Transhumanist Movement.

“Among some futurists and within the part of transhumanist movement, mind uploading is treated as an important proposed life extension technology. Some believe mind uploading is humanity's current best option for preserving the identity of the species, as opposed to cryonics.”⁴

Hope the above information gives you a better understanding of ‘transhumanism’ according to the definition, and goals, of the transhumanist.

Alan

1Enorbet, Faith and Religion, (linuxquestions.org: Post #9044, Date Posted: 09.19.19, Accessed on: 11March 2021.

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/general-10/the-faith-and-religion-mega-thread-

600689/page603.html#post6038117; Internet.

2Wikipedia, Mind Uploading, Accessed on: 11 March 21. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading; Internet.

3Wikipedia, Mind Uploading, Accessed on: 11 March 21. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading; Internet.

4Wikipedia, Mind Uploading, Accessed on: 11 March 21. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading; Internet.

Yup. In my darker days I fantasized about this topic. I'd like to ask them this question.  Who is to say if AI does exist, it would ever be able to logically come to a conclusion we as "Humans"  exist? What if AI reproduced it's self and started to argue if "Humans" where made up information, as not all information is fact. How could it tell Harry Potter from real life? 

It would be a cat chasing it's old folk tale.

[1Timothy115]

On 3/8/2021 at 12:06 PM, Ukulelemike said:

No matter what we do to ourselves, we will always just be human-no matter the number of implants, microchips, or false limbs, no matter what we cut off, or sew on, we are what we are: humans, male and female, as created-all we can manage to do is mutilate and graffiti that which God has created, and one day, we will all stand before God and be judged for what we are: His creation, subject to His justice, like it or not.

Since I have a background in computer tech (IT) the first thought that came to my mind was, What happens after the human memories are loaded into the 'trans human' robot? It's just like the computer I'm using now. It has data loaded, it's just like the memory of a PC with no emotion, no love, no God, no future. The only part that could have emotion, love, and hope for eternity id dead. That is not life after death...it's an algorithm in a computer application. "Even so, come, Lord Jesus." [Revelation 22:20]

[1Timothy115]

1 hour ago, Alan said:

Brethren,

I belong to two internet Linux forums. On both of the forums there has been ongoing discussions on AI (Artificial Intelligence). AI is one of the technological advances that the Transhumanist hopes to be able to extend their life existence through the uploading of computer AI into their organic brains or, “Mind Uploading.”

Here is just one example of what is being discussed on these Linux forums. I will quote from an individual named ‘Enorbet,’

“There is literally zero evidence we were created by some higher being and what's more it is entirely possible, even quite likely, that AI will catch up and then exceed human intelligence. If it turns out to be true that some higher consciousness willfully created humans, there is also zero evidence we could ever catch up let alone exceed our creator(s). Some wise people even ponder whether or not it was a near certainty that given intelligence and reason, AI would be created and ultimately be either incorporated into a kind of bionic humans or complete absorption of organic forms, possibly eliminating organics altogether in time, not likely in The Terminator scenario but by choice.”¹

This is the Wikipedia definition of ‘Mind Uploading.’

“Mind uploading, also known as whole brain emulation (WBE), is the hypothetical futuristic process of scanning a physical structure of the brain accurately enough to create an emulation of the mental state (including long-term memory and "self") and copying it to a computer in a digital form. The computer would then run a simulation of the brain's information processing, such that it would respond in essentially the same way as the original brain and experience having a sentient conscious mind.”²

The technological advances of AI computer software program creators have the hope of replacing the organic brain.

“Mind uploading may potentially be accomplished by either of two methods: copy-and-upload or copy-and-delete by gradual replacement of neurons (which can be considered as a gradual destructive uploading), until the original organic brain no longer exists and a computer program emulating the brain takes control over the body.”³

Mind-Uploading, through AI software programs, is one of the primary goals of the Futurists and the Transhumanist Movement.

“Among some futurists and within the part of transhumanist movement, mind uploading is treated as an important proposed life extension technology. Some believe mind uploading is humanity's current best option for preserving the identity of the species, as opposed to cryonics.”⁴

Hope the above information gives you a better understanding of ‘transhumanism’ according to the definition, and goals, of the transhumanist.

Alan

1Enorbet, Faith and Religion, (linuxquestions.org: Post #9044, Date Posted: 09.19.19, Accessed on: 11March 2021.

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/general-10/the-faith-and-religion-mega-thread-

600689/page603.html#post6038117; Internet.

2Wikipedia, Mind Uploading, Accessed on: 11 March 21. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading; Internet.

3Wikipedia, Mind Uploading, Accessed on: 11 March 21. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading; Internet.

4Wikipedia, Mind Uploading, Accessed on: 11 March 21. Available on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading; Internet.

Thanks Alan, I refer you to my comment to Mike. Algorithms and computer applications their is no love in the basic digital circuit it's 1 or 0, on or off, gang enough of them together and you can make a letter of the alphabet, etc. etc.

[1Timothy115]

As far as the other discussions weaving into the thread...

Look up all the references  to "sons of God" in context to see what/who they are. I believe you will find them not unlike the OT saints mentioned by name and more explicitly mentioned in the new in 1 John 3:1-2.

Heaven a physical place...shouldn't even be in this place...like that? But, the Bible describes things that will be/are in heaven and ultimately in the new heaven and new earth...physical description.

So, I suppose no one has a 'clients list' of all those vested in the transhumanism effort, particularly the politicians?

[Jim_Alaska]

4 hours ago, Alan said:

Brethren,

I belong to two internet Linux forums. On both of the forums there has been ongoing discussions on AI (Artificial Intelligence). AI is one of the technological advances that the Transhumanist hopes to be able to extend their life existence through the uploading of computer AI into their organic brains or, “Mind Uploading.”

Here is just one example of what is being discussed on these Linux forums. I will quote from an individual named ‘Enorbet,’

“There is literally zero evidence we were created by some higher being and what's more it is entirely possible, even quite likely, that AI will catch up and then exceed human intelligence. If it turns out to be true that some higher consciousness willfully created humans, there is also zero evidence we could ever catch up let alone exceed our creator(s). Some wise people even ponder whether or not it was a near certainty that given intelligence and reason, AI would be created and ultimately be either incorporated into a kind of bionic humans or complete absorption of organic forms, possibly eliminating organics altogether in time, not likely in The Terminator scenario but by choice.”¹

 

Romans 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

[Ukulelemike]

16 hours ago, Alan said:

Brethren,

I belong to two internet Linux forums. On both of the forums there has been ongoing discussions on AI (Artificial Intelligence). AI is one of the technological advances that the Transhumanist hopes to be able to extend their life existence through the uploading of computer AI into their organic brains or, “Mind Uploading.”

Here is just one example of what is being discussed on these Linux forums. I will quote from an individual named ‘Enorbet,’

“There is literally zero evidence we were created by some higher being and what's more it is entirely possible, even quite likely, that AI will catch up and then exceed human intelligence. If it turns out to be true that some higher consciousness willfully created humans, there is also zero evidence we could ever catch up let alone exceed our creator(s). Some wise people even ponder whether or not it was a near certainty that given intelligence and reason, AI would be created and ultimately be either incorporated into a kind of bionic humans or complete absorption of organic forms, possibly eliminating organics altogether in time, not likely in The Terminator scenario but by choice.”¹

 

In response to his statement in bold, does he understand where "AI" came from? Did it develop itself? Or just happen by accident of nature? Of course not, it was made my a human intelligence. And I don't see that it will ever exceed human intelligence, because we have not only intelligence, but wisdom, compassion, emotion, spirit, things that are not found in AI, so it cannot exceed us. Even if it could, that is because we, as humans, are weak and limited, and AI would be limited, regardless of its capacity to exceed, if possible, their 'creator'.   But the very fact that AI could ONLY exist because another intelligence programed it, makes clear that the human consciousness and intelligence, complete with emotion, self-realization, compassion, love, etc, as well as the capacity to CONTROL emotions and make them work FOR us, had to be created by another intelligence, a greater intelligence, with much greater capacity for those things associated with our weak minds. Just as AI has an intelligent source, so human actual intelligence needs an intelligent source to bring it about.

[Alan]

From my observations on the Linux forums, a lot of these individuals involved in the development of AI fully understand that they 'create' AI. In fact, because they can  create AI, they are lifted up with pride.

Here are some of personal observations (which can be faulty), of studying, AI and Transhumanism:

In my observations, they, not all, are not the least concerned of the human emotions, such as;  wisdom, compassion, joy, etc... that a human being expresses on a daily basis. The transhumanists that I have listened to, and studied, have no moral inhibitions, or interest, in the moral, or the spirit, aspect of 'Mind Uploading.'

In my observations, these individuals are extremely intelligent when it comes  to technology. Numerous times, in numerous studies, and in posts on the internet computer forums, they are convinced that they can extend their brain functions through technology.

Furthermore, in my observations, which are limited, the creators of AI, as with the creators of cryonics, are primarily atheists and agnostics. In fact, most of them are openly, and most verbally, against all religions and have a deep hatred of the Bible and any church. Most of these individuals, not all, openly state that God, if there is a God is a hateful and vengeful "force" and that all religion, especially Christianity, is 'superstition.'

Edited March 11, 2021 by Alan
grammar

[1Timothy115]

5 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

In response to his statement in bold, does he understand where "AI" came from? Did it develop itself? Or just happen by accident of nature? Of course not, it was made my a human intelligence. And I don't see that it will ever exceed human intelligence, because we have not only intelligence, but wisdom, compassion, emotion, spirit, things that are not found in AI, so it cannot exceed us. Even if it could, that is because we, as humans, are weak and limited, and AI would be limited, regardless of its capacity to exceed, if possible, their 'creator'.   But the very fact that AI could ONLY exist because another intelligence programed it, makes clear that the human consciousness and intelligence, complete with emotion, self-realization, compassion, love, etc, as well as the capacity to CONTROL emotions and make them work FOR us, had to be created by another intelligence, a greater intelligence, with much greater capacity for those things associated with our weak minds. Just as AI has an intelligent source, so human actual intelligence needs an intelligent source to bring it about.

I'll quote it all. I like this argument against 'transhumanism' or/and 'ai'. I may even come back here and use it in discussions with others, with your permission of course. If you happen to hear or spot a list of transhumanists, in paticular, with U.S. politicians and/or the extremely rich. I would like to know who is behind the funding of their research both politically and/or monetarily.

[1Timothy115]

1 hour ago, Alan said:

From my observations on the Linux forums, a lot of these individuals involved in the development of AI fully understand that they 'create' AI. In fact, because they can  create AI, they are lifted up with pride.

Here are some of personal observations (which can be faulty), of studying, AI and Transhumanism:

In my observations, they, not all, are not the least concerned of the human emotions, such as;  wisdom, compassion, joy, etc... that a human being expresses on a daily basis. The transhumanists that I have listened to, and studied, have no moral inhibitions, or interest, in the moral, or the spirit, aspect of 'Mind Uploading.'

In my observations, these individuals are extremely intelligent when it comes  to technology. Numerous times, in numerous studies, and in posts on the internet computer forums, they are convinced that they can extend their brain functions through technology.

Furthermore, in my observations, which are limited, the creators of AI, as with the creators of cryonics, are primarily atheists and agnostics. In fact, most of them are openly, and most verbally, against all religions and have a deep hatred of the Bible and any church. Most of these individuals, not all, openly state that God, if there is a God is a hateful and vengeful "force" and that all religion, especially Christianity, is 'superstition.'

Alan, maybe these are just the developers or maybe just the adherents, not the financiers. Can you give names for these people or are theey using psuedonyms?

[1Timothy115]

They have a facebook page, a blog, a transhumanist party (political), constitution, and...

Christian Transhumanist Association
Using science & technology to participate in the work of God—
to cultivate life and renew creation.

They also have free transhumanism symbols with the symbol designer's names. There has to be money somewhere behind all this. This is beginning to get a kind of 'Musk-ie' smell to it.