Textual/version stance

[Guest Guest]

Candlelight, it's true that there is a Crown copyright on the King James Bible. It's different from the copyrights on other versions, though. The Crown copyright isn't used to make revenues on the King James Bible.

I just did a quick Wikipedia search to find out what the Crown copyright is. Here's what I found:



The only place that the copyright matters is in the United Kingdom. Everywhere else in the world can copy the King James Bible as much as they want. :cool

Thanks KJB_Princess. :thumb

[Guest Guest]

Yes, the copyright is a weak thing to use, but that said, its neat that anyone here in the U. S. can print out a KJ Bible free of copyright and hand out to anyone they want to.

Oh, I suppose Annie may be one of those who studies all versions of the Bible, no doubt if she does that she will come to the wrong conclusion, because those MV's contradict the good old KJ Bible which is the true Word of God.

Amazing to me at the number of people who will come on a KJ message board and try to tear down the KJ. I know she has no respect for me at all, for she has already said she don't respect people who are KJ only under another topic .

I respect her, and her right to be wrong.

Jerry8...that is the point I am "trying" to make as well. Why come on a KJV message board with intentions to tear it down...and, all IFB's in the process? I don't get it? :puzzled:

[Annie]

[quote="Jerry80871852"] Amazing to me at the number of people who will come on a KJ message board and try to tear down the KJ. I know she has no respect for me at all, for she has already said she don't respect people who are KJ only under another topic .

I respect her, and her right to be wrong.[/quote]

Jerry#s, perhaps you didn't notice my response to you on that other thread. You have misrepresented my position. Your claim that I said I don't respect people who are KJVO is a flat-out falsehood. I did say that I don't personally have a lot of respect for people who make a "big issue" out of being KJVO. I then proceeded to say...

[quote]Jerry#s, I do not know anyone on this site personally. Just to clarify, [b]I don't think that just because a person (or group of people) are KJVO that they are "making a huge issue" of it[/b]. My answers (given from a personal perspective) were in response to Tony's questions about what are important issues to "go to battle" about...IOW, to lose friends over, etc. [b]My comments are not a reflection of anyone I have met on this board.[/b] I hope I have not lost any friends here just because I happen to disagree on the text issue. [b]I certainly consider everyone on here to be a friend [/b](as much of a "friend" as one can have without knowing them personally, that is ).[/quote]

As far as "tearing down the KJB," please provide evidence that I have done so. I believe I have said over and over that I LOVE the KJV, that my children fall asleep listening to the KJV, that they have memorized several chapters from the KJV, and other very positive things about the KJV. I'm not sure how I've torn it down...I love the Bible and would never, ever seek to desecrate it in any way.

Despite your claims to the contrary, you do not respect me even enough to represent me correctly. You are perpetuating two blatant falsehoods that I hope you will rush to rectify.

[Annie]

[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]I looked at my daughter's plain, no study notes, no nothing KJV Bible that was bought at a Dollar General here in America for $5 and right inside the front is a copyright by Holman. [/quote]

I've noticed the same thing, BHD. I haven't gotten involved in the copyright aspect of this discussion, but I will say that I don't understand what in the world a copyright or lack thereof "shows" about the KJ version of the Bible. :puzzled:

[quote]FWIW, I listened to a portion of the sermon by Peter Ruckman that was posted in this thread earlier and the "proofs" he presented aren't even logical, let alone Biblical. I didn't hear too many verses. I did hear quite a bit of story-telling, bashing, opinionating, ranting, boasting, illogical arguments like "England has Greenwich Mean Time so that means that the English have the only correct time in the world so therefore the English have the only correct Bible in the world. Say HUH? He preaches exactly like Jack Hyles did. [/quote]

I don't know about that last sentence, since I've never had the "privilege" of hearing a full sermon by Jack Hyles...Well, come to think of it, I've never heard a whole sermon by Ruckman either...and :ideas: come..to..think..of..it, the very same thing made me turn off both sermons after a few minutes...so, I guess I do agree with that last sentence. :wink

In all seriousness, I couldn't have worded my opinion better than you have; you took the thoughts right out of my head. "Truly, he has a dizzying intellect." (Are you old enough to remember that line from TPB?)

[quote]I grew up under the influence of Jack Hyles and many HAC graduates. I was in the system for 8 years and heard plenty of sermons during that time. The vast majority of them were full of pride, arrogance, haughty speech, illogical arguments, verses ripped out of context (like the Ecclesiastes one mentioned above by KJB_Princess) to support the preacher's pet peeve. [/quote]

:thumbdown Soooo lame.

[quote]Sermons consisted of one or two verses that were used as a springboard and the rest of the sermon was stories, rantings, "what I've accomplished", etc. [/quote]

:gross:

[quote]We always told everyone how great Jack Hyles was because he told us how great he was. A common statement is, "Well, when you've led as many people to the Lord as Jack Hyles has then....". Guess what? He said that very statement many times and the parrots repeat it all over the country. When people say to me, "Well, when you've studied and fought for as long as Doc has, then......", I suspect that Peter Ruckman himself has made that statement about himself once or twice. :wink [/quote]

Nah, ya think? :roll

[quote]
Like I said, I listened to that sermon and was immediately taken back to my teen years at First Baptist Church, Hammond, IN Youth Conference, my own church's weekly sermons, our preaching conferences, ad nauseum.......................... There is NO difference![/quote]

Again, can't comment definitively on that, since my exposure to both JH and PR has been mercifully limited. The little that I do know about both of them seems to indicate that what you are saying is true.

[Guest Guest]

[quote="Annie"][quote="Jerry80871852"] Amazing to me at the number of people who will come on a KJ message board and try to tear down the KJ. I know she has no respect for me at all, for she has already said she don't respect people who are KJ only under another topic .

I respect her, and her right to be wrong.[/quote]

Jerry#s, perhaps you didn't notice my response to you on that other thread. You have misrepresented my position. Your claim that I said I don't respect people who are KJVO is a flat-out falsehood. I did say that I don't personally have a lot of respect for people who make a "big issue" out of being KJVO. I then proceeded to say...

[quote]Jerry#s, I do not know anyone on this site personally. Just to clarify, [b]I don't think that just because a person (or group of people) are KJVO that they are "making a huge issue" of it[/b]. My answers (given from a personal perspective) were in response to Tony's questions about what are important issues to "go to battle" about...IOW, to lose friends over, etc. [b]My comments are not a reflection of anyone I have met on this board.[/b] I hope I have not lost any friends here just because I happen to disagree on the text issue. [b]I certainly consider everyone on here to be a friend [/b](as much of a "friend" as one can have without knowing them personally, that is ).[/quote]

As far as "tearing down the KJB," please provide evidence that I have done so. I believe I have said over and over that I LOVE the KJV, that my children fall asleep listening to the KJV, that they have memorized several chapters from the KJV, and other very positive things about the KJV. I'm not sure how I've torn it down...I love the Bible and would never, ever seek to desecrate it in any way.

Despite your claims to the contrary, you do not respect me even enough to represent me correctly. You are perpetuating two blatant falsehoods that I hope you will rush to rectify.[/quote]

Hi Annie...I see your point, I think? You have a burden for your kids w/ understanding the KJV? "My chidren fall asleep listening to the KJV" is what you said. My son never had that problem, so I am just trying to understand is all. :smile

This might get torn apart as well...but, I ordered the KJV Prophecy Study Bible, Enclyclopedia, and Charting the End Times book...by authors Tim LaHaye and Ed Hindson. I ordered it for my sister who is in the RCC. It should come in my mailbox in less than 2 weeks. Who knows...maybe this might help your kiddos? :ideas:

[Guest Guest]

Scratch that last post I made, Annie. I mis-read what you said. Sorry. :sad

[JerryNumbers]

[quote="Annie"][quote="Jerry80871852"] Amazing to me at the number of people who will come on a KJ message board and try to tear down the KJ. I know she has no respect for me at all, for she has already said she don't respect people who are KJ only under another topic .

I respect her, and her right to be wrong.[/quote]

Jerry#s, perhaps you didn't notice my response to you on that other thread. You have misrepresented my position. Your claim that I said I don't respect people who are KJVO is a flat-out falsehood. I did say that I don't personally have a lot of respect for people who make a "big issue" out of being KJVO. I then proceeded to say...

[quote]Jerry#s, I do not know anyone on this site personally. Just to clarify, [b]I don't think that just because a person (or group of people) are KJVO that they are "making a huge issue" of it[/b]. My answers (given from a personal perspective) were in response to Tony's questions about what are important issues to "go to battle" about...IOW, to lose friends over, etc. [b]My comments are not a reflection of anyone I have met on this board.[/b] I hope I have not lost any friends here just because I happen to disagree on the text issue. [b]I certainly consider everyone on here to be a friend [/b](as much of a "friend" as one can have without knowing them personally, that is ).[/quote]

As far as "tearing down the KJB," please provide evidence that I have done so. I believe I have said over and over that I LOVE the KJV, that my children fall asleep listening to the KJV, that they have memorized several chapters from the KJV, and other very positive things about the KJV. I'm not sure how I've torn it down...I love the Bible and would never, ever seek to desecrate it in any way.

Despite your claims to the contrary, you do not respect me even enough to represent me correctly. You are perpetuating two blatant falsehoods that I hope you will rush to rectify.[/quote]

We make a big deal out of it, if we didn't this would not be posted on the site.


Online Baptist, [b]A KJV Site![/b]

A site for Independent, Fundamental Baptist believers to fellowship and uplift our Lord.

So, no, you said you did not have respect for those who made a big deal out of it, that is us!

So no, I did not rip nothing out of context.

By the way.

You posted:



:thumbdown Soooo lame.">>

Kind of a put down to Bakers, for no doubt having set under those sermons she knows a thing or 2 about that man that you do no.

[Bakershalfdozen]

:puzzled: Jerry#s, if you read all of Annie's other responses to what I wrote, I think you'll see that Annie was [u][b]agreeing[/b][/u] with what I wrote.

[Bakershalfdozen]

[quote="Annie"][

"Truly, he has a dizzying intellect." (Are you old enough to remember that line from TPB?)

[/quote]

:lol: We love that movie! We still watch it once or twice a year and sometimes go around repeating lines from it. :frog

"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Or, when one of our children is asking another to stop doing something and they say, "I mean it!", we just have to interject, "Anyone want a peanut?" :lol: :lol:

:hijack:

[Guest Guest]

[spoiler][quote="Bakershalfdozen"]I looked at my daughter's plain, no study notes, no nothing KJV Bible that was bought at a Dollar General here in America for $5 and right inside the front is a copyright by Holman.

FWIW, I listened to a portion of the sermon by Peter Ruckman that was posted in this thread earlier and the "proofs" he presented aren't even logical, let alone Biblical. I didn't hear too many verses. I did hear quite a bit of story-telling, bashing, opinionating, ranting, boasting, illogical arguments like "England has Greenwich Mean Time so that means that the English have the only correct time in the world so therefore the English have the only correct Bible in the world. Say HUH? He preaches exactly like Jack Hyles did.

I grew up under the influence of Jack Hyles and many HAC graduates. I was in the system for 8 years and heard plenty of sermons during that time. The vast majority of them were full of pride, arrogance, haughty speech, illogical arguments, verses ripped out of context (like the Ecclesiastes one mentioned above by KJB_Princess) to support the preacher's pet peeve.

Sermons consisted of one or two verses that were used as a springboard and the rest of the sermon was stories, rantings, "what I've accomplished", etc.

We always told everyone how great Jack Hyles was because he told us how great he was. A common statement is, "Well, when you've led as many people to the Lord as Jack Hyles has then....". Guess what? He said that very statement many times and the parrots repeat it all over the country. When people say to me, "Well, when you've studied and fought for as long as Doc has, then......", I suspect that Peter Ruckman himself has made that statement about himself once or twice. :wink

We were always told that no preacher is perfect so there was never a reason to "run God's man out". Jack Hyles wanted his son, Dave, to be the next pastor of First Baptist and he promoted that until Dave's gross lifestyle was found out by the public. His father knew about it all along and still wanted him to be the next pastor. Sorry, but preachers disqualify themselves sometimes. Jack Hyles did not rule his own house well and did not restrain his son. Jack Hyles disqualified himself. SO HAS PETER RUCKMAN! He is a brawler, he hasn't ruled his house well or else he wouldn't be on his 3rd marriage. He is not meek and temperate when he replies in letters in the manner he does and then brags about it in sermons. He has made his opinions his final authority. Does that mean that many men should resign from the pastorate? ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!! Maybe our churches wouldn't be in as much of a mess as they are. BTW, the same rules apply to deacons...

Like I said, I listened to that sermon and was immediately taken back to my teen years at First Baptist Church, Hammond, IN Youth Conference, my own church's weekly sermons, our preaching conferences, ad nauseum.......................... There is NO difference![/quote][/spoiler]

Bakershalfdozen, I completely disagree with your opinion of Dr. Ruckman, but I'm not going to argue with you. You've made up your mind and there's no point in trying to get you to agree with me.

You know... it's really not healthy to have such a bitter spirit toward fellow brothers in Christ.

[Guest Guest]

I might add...that Dr. Jack Hyles has been home with the Lord since, 2000? I was always taught not to speak ill of the dead, as a child. The man is not here to defend himself...not, that he would care what is send on a message board, though. LOL. I don't think Dr. Ruckman really cares, either. :lol

[Guest Guest]

[quote="candlelight"]I might add...that Dr. Jack Hyles has been home with the Lord since, 2000? I was always taught not to speak ill of the dead, as a child. The man is not here to defend himself...not, that he would care what is send on a message board, though. LOL. I don't think Dr. Ruckman really cares, either. :lol[/quote]

You're right, neither of them care.

[HappyChristian]

[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]I looked at my daughter's plain, no study notes, no nothing KJV Bible that was bought at a Dollar General here in America for $5 and right inside the front is a copyright by Holman.

FWIW, I listened to a portion of the sermon by Peter Ruckman that was posted in this thread earlier and the "proofs" he presented aren't even logical, let alone Biblical. I didn't hear too many verses. I did hear quite a bit of story-telling, bashing, opinionating, ranting, boasting, illogical arguments like "England has Greenwich Mean Time so that means that the English have the only correct time in the world so therefore the English have the only correct Bible in the world. Say HUH? He preaches exactly like Jack Hyles did.

I grew up under the influence of Jack Hyles and many HAC graduates. I was in the system for 8 years and heard plenty of sermons during that time. The vast majority of them were full of pride, arrogance, haughty speech, illogical arguments, verses ripped out of context (like the Ecclesiastes one mentioned above by KJB_Princess) to support the preacher's pet peeve.

Sermons consisted of one or two verses that were used as a springboard and the rest of the sermon was stories, rantings, "what I've accomplished", etc.

We always told everyone how great Jack Hyles was because he told us how great he was. A common statement is, "Well, when you've led as many people to the Lord as Jack Hyles has then....". Guess what? He said that very statement many times and the parrots repeat it all over the country. When people say to me, "Well, when you've studied and fought for as long as Doc has, then......", I suspect that Peter Ruckman himself has made that statement about himself once or twice. :wink

We were always told that no preacher is perfect so there was never a reason to "run God's man out". Jack Hyles wanted his son, Dave, to be the next pastor of First Baptist and he promoted that until Dave's gross lifestyle was found out by the public. His father knew about it all along and still wanted him to be the next pastor. Sorry, but preachers disqualify themselves sometimes. Jack Hyles did not rule his own house well and did not restrain his son. Jack Hyles disqualified himself. SO HAS PETER RUCKMAN! He is a brawler, he hasn't ruled his house well or else he wouldn't be on his 3rd marriage. He is not meek and temperate when he replies in letters in the manner he does and then brags about it in sermons. He has made his opinions his final authority. Does that mean that many men should resign from the pastorate? ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!! Maybe our churches wouldn't be in as much of a mess as they are. BTW, the same rules apply to deacons...

Like I said, I listened to that sermon and was immediately taken back to my teen years at First Baptist Church, Hammond, IN Youth Conference, my own church's weekly sermons, our preaching conferences, ad nauseum.......................... There is NO difference![/quote]


Having had experiences with both JH and PR, and a couple of others very similary, I totally agree with this post, Bakers!!!!

Isn't it interesting that when the truth is brought up, supporters immediately claim bitterness? KJBP - I am not bitter against either man, nor even against the preacher who tried to kill my hubby. But I don't support them with my words, my devotion or my money. Shining the light on error is not bitterness. The bitterness charge is a strawman.

[Guest Guest]

I think this really needs to get back on topic. I don't really care to argue about a man. I'd rather defend the Bible than a preacher.

[HappyChristian]

[quote="KJB_Princess"]I think this really needs to get back on topic. I don't really care to argue about a man. I'd rather defend the Bible than a preacher.[/quote] But you're the one who brought up the charge of bitterness. I don't want to argue about any of it, really. Just wanted to let Bakers know that I agreed with her, and let you know that I'm not bitter. :thumb