Music in Church

[Guest Guest]

Good post. As long as the secular music isn't immoral, then it isn't necessarily "bad" to listen to it. (by "immoral", I mean bad lyrics or a song that promotes sin)

[kevinmiller]

Here's what the BIBLE says as Seth already pointed out and was largely ignored: "Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."
and to answer your comment about Psalms not are singing all about our salvation.......well, um, it was written before the New Testament I believe......

I think based on what the Bible as a whole says, we can assume that we can sing songs that are teaching or praising God. Both are fine, Biblically.

[Guest Guest]

Psalm 136:1 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever. And so goes the rest of the chapter. Repetition is not always a bad thing. It might not be your preference, but certainly not wrong. If you look at the Psalms, you will often find songs that are extolling the virtues of the Lord, recalling past events, or just praising the Lord for His goodness. The Psalms are the largest examples of Biblical music in the Bible, and they seem to be more similar to P&W songs than to hymns, IMHO.

Lol. I thought you might mention those verses. That happens to be a style very much like the refrain in a hymn. Each "for his mercy endureth for ever" comes after a mention of a distinct act or character trait of God and is expressing that each mentioned act was an act of his mercy. Hardly mindless repetition. You only posted part of the chapter, read that whole thing and tell me that song wasn't made up of doctrine. Indeed, the whole song is about the character and acts of God. It is hardly comparable to the vague, emotion based fluff which makes up the greater part of much CCM... I find it somewhat amusing that you compare the psalms to CCM, the psalms are loaded with doctrine, they are probably the single most quoted book of the bible in the NT(not 100% sure, would have to check, going by memory) However, by your own admission, CCM contains very little doctrine.


Generally speaking I find CCM is most prevalent among those that turn away from the known will of God, those that corrupt and and reject the scriptures, and it is often prevalent in the lives of those who are living in open sin. There is a reason for that... It is because most CCM has more to do with giving a feel good "religious experience" than worshiping God. You may say that is judgmental, and I agree. :Green The tree is known by it's fruit. 90% of the Christians I have known who fell into gross open sin(and unfortunately I have known quite a few) listened mostly to CCM perhaps with some secular thrown in. Most were about your and my age, and every one told me how Godly and Christ honoring their music was and how it "helped" them in their walk with Christ. That wasn't the fruit when it matured though... Godly music doesn't make wicked people holy, but holy people will have no desire to listen to unholy music.


Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

"Proverbs 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight."

"Proverbs 21:27 The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?"

"Psalm 50:15-17 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me. But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee."

[Guest Guest]

Kevin does have a point. There is no Scripture that says music should prepare our hearts for a sermon.

KJB...I have always heard that prayer should prepare our hearts for a sermon. However, IMO, that is to be done prior to a church service. Then, my pastor does two invitations on Sunday morning. The first one is for anyone to lay any burdens down and/or praise and worship the Lord at the altar or in your seats. The other invitation is for salvation and for the Christian (whatever God has "convicted" you of...if anything.) I always get convicted. The Christian may come to the altar, sit in their seats...or kneel down praying, or just stand...whatever the Lord places on our hearts to do. Sunday nights and Wednesday nights are a little different...but, it is definetly prayer.


I listen to music in the car to prepare my heart. Music is again "themed" in my IFB church to go right along with the pastor's sermon. I believe it touches people's hearts. It sure touches me and my hubby's heart...and, we are praying for my (our) son...when he comes. :pray the Lord "convicts" him to come and worship, more than a handful of times.


Music fills my soul with "joy unspeakable" that is coupled with prayer.

[Guest Guest]

I thought music was used to praise GOD maybe I am wrong. I read many posts that said Old Hymns turn you toward salvation and I simply agree very much so with those statemets. My questions are Why can't music in church also simply praise God for anything and everything he has done in our lives not just salvation?

Nothing wrong with praising God in songs, it is fine, actually it is excellent, however, much of CCM is corrupt with a improper view of exactly what "praise" is. It isn't repeating a phrase which means nothing, like, "Lord I lift your name on high" for example, rather, it is specific thanks or blessing for something in his character or for something he has done. A large number of hymns are praise as well as doctrine...

[Guest Guest]

Here's what the BIBLE says as Seth already pointed out and was largely ignored: "Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."
and to answer your comment about Psalms not are singing all about our salvation.......well, um, it was written before the New Testament I believe......

bzmomo7...Great answer about the Pslams being written before the NT.

Yes, isn't it funny how the scripture that Seth posted got "largely ignored." Or did it? Hmmm? :amen:

[kevinmiller]

Nothing wrong with praising God in songs, it is fine, actually it is excellent, however, much of CCM is corrupt with a improper view of exactly what "praise" is. It isn't repeating a phrase which means nothing, like, "Lord I lift your name on high" for example, rather, it is specific thanks or blessing for something in his character or for something he has done. A large number of hymns are praise as well as doctrine...

Lord I Lift Your Name On High

"Lord, I liftYour name on high
Lord, I love to sing Your praises
I'm so glad You're in my life
I'm so glad You came to save us

Chorus:
You came from heaven to earth
To show the way
From the earth to the cross
My debt to pay
From the cross to the grave
From the grave to the sky
Lord, I lift Your name on high"

I think those are pretty good lyrics, personally. :wink

[bzmomo7]

This statement still disturbs me, Kevin.............how do you define what is worship?

[Guest Guest]

Lord I Lift Your Name On High

"Lord, I liftYour name on high
Lord, I love to sing Your praises
I'm so glad You're in my life
I'm so glad You came to save us

Chorus:
You came from heaven to earth
To show the way
From the earth to the cross
My debt to pay
From the cross to the grave
From the grave to the sky
Lord, I lift Your name on high"

I think those are pretty good lyrics, personally.

It is a great Christian camp song and VBS song, IMO. :frog

[kevinmiller]

Seth, many of the Psalms were not "loaded" with doctrine, as you say. Some chapters were nothing more than encouragements to praise God and lift up His name. Many CCM songs will actually quote Scripture verses as part of the refrain or in a verse. It can't get much better than that.

Generally speaking I find CCM is most prevalent among those that turn away from the known will of God, those that corrupt and and reject the scriptures, and it is often prevalent in the lives of those who are living in open sin. There is a reason for that... It is because most CCM has more to do with giving a feel good "religious experience" than worshiping God. You may say that is judgmental, and I agree. :Green The tree is known by it's fruit. 90% of the Christians I have known who fell into gross open sin(and unfortunately I have known quite a few) listened mostly to CCM perhaps with some secular thrown in. Most were about your and my age, and every one told me how Godly and Christ honoring their music was and how it "helped" them in their walk with Christ. That wasn't the fruit when it matured though... Godly music doesn't make wicked people holy, but holy people will have no desire to listen to unholy music.

I'm not sure who you've seen this happen to, I've seen quite the opposite. The people that I know who are most focused on God and concerned with spiritual things listen to both CCM and secular music. They are seeking God's will for their lives, some use the KJV exclusively(should be a plus, right? ), pray daily, spend time in fellowship with God and other believers discussing spiritual things, etc. So your argument simply doesn't hold up. It was one of the reasons I started doubting what I once believed and had been taught about music. I had a few case scenarios I could pull up, too, but I found that wasn't the norm, nor could it be directly correlated to the music. In fact, it can't be. How can anyone say that what music goes into your ears is going to direct your heart? Any problem that someone has in their Christian walk is going to be as a result of where their heart is and what they are seeking after, not what music they listen to.

You can call it unholy all you want, but until you prove WHY it's unholy, there isn't much to stand on.

[kevinmiller]

That's a tough question, and certainly one worth bringing up. I'm gonna do some more research on this subject in the morning but I'll give you my general thoughts, at the moment.

My thought is that worship is first and foremost a state of one's heart. It is when your heart is contrite and humbled before God in awe of who He is and what He has done for us. It is the desire to give of ourselves to God in holy reverence to Him. It is having God as our sole and complete focus.

Those are my preliminary thoughts, I'm gonna do some more research tomorrow. :smile

[bzmomo7]

Good idea, perhaps you could put this in a new thread, so we don't completely highjack this one. :frog

[Jerry]

The people that I know who are most focused on God and concerned with spiritual things listen to both CCM and secular music.

Wow, a total lack of discernment! Sad - in your case, anything goes, except the person that actually draws a line! :sad

[Guest Guest]

"Lord, I love to sing Your praises
I'm so glad You're in my life
I'm so glad You came to save us

Ok, lets look at it. I think we can agree that this part is mostly fluff. Nothing really "wrong" with it but not much there either. Pretty much just says love + glad.

Chorus:
You came from heaven to earth
To show the way
From the earth to the cross
My debt to pay
From the cross to the grave
From the grave to the sky
Lord, I lift Your name on high"

I think those are pretty good lyrics, personally.

On this part we have some issues. Christ didn't exactly come from heaven to earth just
to "show the way" he is the way and he came to die for the sin of the whole world. John the baptist was the one who came to "show the way" so to speak. Secondly we have the doctrinal problem of a man saying "Lord, I lift Your name on high". You will not find a single case of a man "lifting" the name of the Lord any place in scripture. The name of the Lord IS lifted up regardless of the actions of man. We can and should praise his name, but that is recognizing what HE has done, we are not lifting anything at all ourselves. That would imply a power we do not have. All in all, it manages to slip in a fair amount of bad doctrine considering it is only a few lines repeated over and over...

[kevinmiller]

Might be a good idea. :wink