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[Invicta]

I apologize.

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Edited March 19, 2023 by ...

[Invicta]

We only have congregational singing to a piano.  

Incidentally the person who is sometime refererred to as the father of congregational singing is John Mason died 1694.  A bit of a strange character, even a false prophet.  

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Edited March 19, 2023 by ...

[Musician4God1611]

Brother Stafford:

Although I understand where you're coming from, I cannot reconcile myself to agree with you. If it is wrong for the whole congregation to sit quietly while one person sings, wouldn't it be wrong for them to sit quietly while one person prays, or even preaches. Also, testimonies would be out of the question. We see individual worship in the church in 1 Corinthians 14:26-33, "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." Now when we read these verses we generally go straight to prophesy and tongues, because that's what it expounds on; but it starts with psalms and doctrine. Now he didn't say that any of these things were wrong, just the way that they were doing them. Therefore if it is wrong for ONE to have a psalm, it is wrong for ONE to have a doctrine.
I too am a musician, and although I have never played professionally, I do possess the necessary skills to do so. I say that to say, I do understand where you're coming from. I just also understand that there is a ditch on both sides of the road. There truly are people out there that want to use their talents for God's glory, not their own glory. I can't help but wonder if squelching that is truly right in the eyes of God.

(it wouldn't let me quote you)

Edited January 9, 2017 by Musician4God1611

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[Musician4God1611]

I understand. I lean very heavily toward not liking special music in church. Although I do specials for church, and have ever since I was young; I see so many people that really shouldn't be doing them. But that ultimately is a decision the pastor has to make.

[DaveW]

As to special music, you can very quickly tell if someone is singing for their own glory or for the Lord's.

I would rather hear an imperfect voice singing for the Lord than a perfect voice singing for themselves.

And whilst I understand your position, the Bible disagrees:

2 Chronicles 29

27  And Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering upon the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israel.

 28  And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished. 

And note that I am not "looking back to the Law" but seeing a principle clearly displayed, nor am I trying to get you to go against your own conscience - with your background as described, you need to walk more carefully in this matter.

 

As to congregational singing, I think it may have been around a little earlier than 1694:

Psa 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Singunto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.

(And verses following).

Edited January 9, 2017 by DaveW
Book and chapter of first reference

[Musician4God1611]

2 minutes ago, DaveW said:

As to special music, you can very quickly tell if someone is singing for their own glory or for the Lord's.

I would rather hear an imperfect voice singing for the Lord than a perfect voice singing for themselves.

And whilst I understand your position, the Bible disagrees:

27  And Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering upon the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israel. notenote

 28  And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished. 

And note that I am not "looking back to the Law" but seeing a principle clearly displayed, nor am I trying to get you to go against your own conscience - with your background as described, you need to walk more carefully in this matter.

 

As to congregational singing, I think it may have been around a little earlier than 1694:

Psa 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Singunto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.

(And verses following).

Agreed! There is no way you can say the Bible is against it. However, I don't know that you can say its wrong not to have it either.

[Invicta]

We have a couple of men who cannot get anyware near the tune.  I am not all that good myself, but I do enjoy siging the hymns.  Unfortunately most of the hymns are pitched far too high me.  

Someone said "God made the crow as well as the nightingale, and loves to hear them both.

I didn't say I agreed with what was said about John Mason, Obviously the scriptue in the OT has singers, And I thinks theat Paul mentions singing Psalms and spirirual songs.

[Ukulelemike]

I admit to liking special music, probably because I grew up in a family of singers and so from a relatively young age, did special music. However, it really needs to be just that: special, as in, not 3 songs in a standard service of just specials-make them special, once in a while. I miss doing the occasional special-a friend and I used to sing once in a while in my church I am in but since I am the pastor, I generally don't do them because it feels like it becomes "The Pastor Mike Show!" My wife disagrees, but she's my wife and likes to hear me sing, lol.

Now, special meetings, confrences, and such, hey, special music is great but don't overdo it even there-I went to see a speaker last summer at a church and he had four sessions with breaks between, but before and after they had a group sing three songs, so out of like 1-1/2 hour sessions, he got to teach for like 20-25 minutes-we missed a lot.

[Invicta]

A few years ago, our church received invitations from another church some way away, not one we were familiar with, for "An Evening of Worship with Graham Kendrick"  1000 tickets available at £12 per head.  On a forum I was on at the time, now defunct, I asked the question "Since when have we been charging for worship?"  The answer I received from one member was "It should be called a concert, Kendrick is a professional musician"  so why call it worship? I am sure that hymn writers in the past would not have charged royalties for reproducing their hymns or from teacing them to us.  How about David?  "I have just written a great new Psalm if you give me a few $$ each, I will sing it to you."  I don't think so somehow.  

Edited January 10, 2017 by Invicta

[mgnandt]

On 9/17/2016 at 11:57 PM, Brother Stafford said:

I just finished adding a section on my blog about musical discernment.  Basically, it's links to teaching videos by Brother David Cloud and Pastors Graham and James West.  There are also links to good, clean, godly songs and hymns.  They do wonderful teachings that illustrate how to draw a clear line between godly music and worldly music.

I would like to hear some opinions about the subject.  I do not know one person in my life who feels as strongly as I do on the subject.  

*Update*

I have removed this section from my blog.  You can still view the videos via their original sources:

Musical Discernment Videos by Pastors Graham and James West at Tamworth Bible Baptist Church in New South Wales.

Ungodly Music Warning Videos by Brother David Cloud at the Way of Life Literature website.

I have noticed that in our IFBC's that they are using watered down contemporary music. No drums or electric guitars; but toned down to use the piano, and the words to that song. Very Sad!