Members John81 Posted April 29, 2016 Members Posted April 29, 2016 Note: In surveys such as this, all Baptists are placed in the "Protestant" category. Large Number of Pastors Don't Believe in the Rapture End-time theology is wavering in the Christian church and a large number of Protestant pastors believe there is no rapture. Whether pre-tribulation or post rapture, a new study by LifeWay research reveals that pinning down details of the apocalypse among a group of pastors is hard to do. Although the Scriptures make it clear that Jesus is coming back, researchers found varying views on three aspects of end-time theology: the rapture, the Antichrist and the millennial kingdom. Out of the 1,000 senior Protestant pastors surveyed, only a third (36 percent) believed in a pre-tribulation rapture where Christians disappear at the start of the apocalypse and those left behind suffer tribulation. Thirty-six percent of pastors say the rapture is not literal, while almost 1 in 5 believe the rapture happens after the tribulation (18 percent). End-time theology is popular with churchgoers but it is not an easy topic to preach about, Scott McConnell, vice president of LifeWay Research, explained. "Most people want their pastor to preach about the Book of Revelation and the end of the world," he said. "But that's a complicated task. Pastors and the scholars they cite often disagree about how the end times will unfold." The diversity among eschatological views includes varying opinions on the Antichrist and beliefs in a millennial kingdom. About half of pastors (49 percent) see the Antichrist as a figure who will arise in the future, 14 percent believe he is the personification of evil, while 12 percent say he is not an actual person. Close to half of the pastors surveyed believe in pre-millennialism (48 percent), which is the view that the thousand-year reign of Christ happens in the future. A third (31 percent) of leaders don't believe in a thousand-year reign, but they do believe that Jesus already rules in the hearts and minds of Christians. Close to 1 in 10 (11 percent) believe in post-millennialism, the idea that the world will gradually become more Christian until Jesus returns. McConnell said it isn't a bad thing that pastors disagree on the details of the apocalypse because most agree on the main teachings about the Second Coming of Jesus. He said the rest doesn't affect the day-to-day life of most Christians. "The big picture of Revelation is clear: Jesus returns, people must be ready, evil is defeated," he said. "With the rest of the details, there is room for disagreement." http://www.charismanews.com/culture/56825-large-number-of-pastors-don-t-believe-in-the-rapture Alan 1 Quote
Members swathdiver Posted April 29, 2016 Members Posted April 29, 2016 They aren't really pastors then now are they? More like wolves in sheep's clothing. Alan 1 Quote
Members John81 Posted April 30, 2016 Author Members Posted April 30, 2016 Where does Scripture say a pastor must hold a specific end times view or view on the timing of rapture? Our own Mike holds a different view on the timing of the rapture but he's still a pastor and not a wolf in sheep's clothing. Quote
Members swathdiver Posted April 30, 2016 Members Posted April 30, 2016 I do not subscribe to moral relativism John. There are not equally correct opposing views in the bible. One view is of God and the other is of Satan. "For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." - Acts 20:27-30 Quote
Members John81 Posted April 30, 2016 Author Members Posted April 30, 2016 Who said anything about moral relativism? Nobody has a lock on every aspect of the end times. Regardless of the particular view a Christian holds, there is not a 100% agreed upon consensus on every aspect. There are questions as to just what this or that point may mean, or the timing. There is also the fact every Christian, including pastors, grow, learn, mature at different rates and in different areas over the course of a lifetime. A pastors understanding, and therefore view, of end times matters may change many times over the years whether it be by a matter of a few degrees here and there or from one view to another. Nearly every Jew, from the most learned Bible (OT) teachers and leaders to the common man and those in-between thought they had an understanding of the First Coming of Christ but they were wrong in many aspects. There are many fine men of God here on OB and even where most are in basic agreement on end-times matters there are differences. Concluding this is due to some engaging in moral relativism and/or accepting a view from Satan doesn't fit. What pastor perfectly understands, knows and proclaims every point of Scripture from beginning to end? None. Quote
Members No Nicolaitans Posted April 30, 2016 Members Posted April 30, 2016 23 hours ago, John81 said: Thirty-six percent of pastors say the rapture is not literal That's the part that concerns me...and causes me to wonder what else isn't taken literal by them? 23 hours ago, John81 said: McConnell said it isn't a bad thing that pastors disagree on the details of the apocalypse because most agree on the main teachings about the Second Coming of Jesus. He said the rest doesn't affect the day-to-day life of most Christians. I wonder what he means by "the rest". Does he mean the details of the apocalypse, the antichrist, and the millennium...or the Bible as a whole? Somewhere along the line (long ago), churches failed. They failed to adhere to the strict commands of following the doctrine(s) that were given to them. They failed in teaching others sound doctrine. They failed in seeing that they teach no other doctrine. They failed. Pastors failed and churches failed. In so doing, they allowed for all of this "diversity" to creep in...giving rise to false teaching and doctrine...not just on end-time events but on all major doctrines. Diversity on end-times. Diversity on salvation. Diversity on Christian-living. Diversity on gender roles in the church's leadership...and on and on it went and goes. They failed. However, one thing they succeeded in was this...they succeeded in helping to fulfill prophecy, because all of this was foretold. Jim_Alaska and swathdiver 2 Quote
Members John81 Posted April 30, 2016 Author Members Posted April 30, 2016 43 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said: That's the part that concerns me...and causes me to wonder what else isn't taken literal by them? I wonder what he means by "the rest". Does he mean the details of the apocalypse, the antichrist, and the millennium...or the Bible as a whole? Somewhere along the line (long ago), churches failed. They failed to adhere to the strict commands of following the doctrine(s) that were given to them. They failed in teaching others sound doctrine. They failed in seeing that they teach no other doctrine. They failed. Pastors failed and churches failed. In so doing, they allowed for all of this "diversity" to creep in...giving rise to false teaching and doctrine...not just on end-time events but on all major doctrines. Diversity on end-times. Diversity on salvation. Diversity on Christian-living. Diversity on gender roles in the church's leadership...and on and on it went and goes. They failed. However, one thing they succeeded in was this...they succeeded in helping to fulfill prophecy, because all of this was foretold. Part of the problem comes from the demand pastors have a degree from a Christian university or seminary. As most here know, most of these schools today range from off in some areas, to weak, watered down or outright secular in nature. Very few strive to actually teach sound doctrine, make sure they hire only teachers and professors who hold to and teach sound doctrine. Thus we have most pastors having been trained in such schools and bringing that into their churches, passing it on to their congregations, and then the next generation takes that with them when they attend a likely even worse university than their pastor attended. Along with the tide of demanding certain degrees from prospective pastors, many churches have cut off any chance of someone within their own church the Lord has called to preach from having any encouragement or chance from their church. I've seen men called to preach, who clearly had the gift and ability to preach, rejected and even fought against because they didn't have a degree to hang on their wall. If the survey indicates about a third of pastors don't believe in a literal rapture, the positive side is that about two-thirds do believe in a literal rapture. I was hopeful perhaps the RSS feeds we get from LifeWay might have one coming with the details of this survey which we could examine more closely. Given the context, it seems "the rest" would be in reference to end times matters, not the Bible as a whole. We should be very thankful for the remaining sound churches and pastors, giving them all due support even as we pray for and attempt to help others that we can. No Nicolaitans and Jim_Alaska 2 Quote
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted April 30, 2016 Administrators Posted April 30, 2016 Well said John. So called "Christian Universities" are failing on many fronts, especially in teaching the "faith once delivered to the saints." 2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; swathdiver and John81 2 Quote
Members Thinking Posted May 4 Members Posted May 4 Good for them! It's an illustration of those going to heaven. Nothing physical- unless you believe those in heaven physical instead of spirit. Quote
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