Abomination Of Desolation. In Your Opinion, What Is It?

[Genevanpreacher]

I have my opinion.

What is yours?

[Salyan]

The AntiChrist receiving worship as god.

[Covenanter]

What WAS it? History or yet unfulfilled prophecy? 

 

Mat. 24:¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

Luke 21:²⁰ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

²¹ Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

²² For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

 

Comparing Matthew & Luke, it is appears that the armies are involved - Roman armies with the eagle standards - which were graven images of an abomination. Lev. 11:13

 

There are 3 refs in Daniel:

 

Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the OBlation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

Should we look for something specific, or does the overspreading of abominations refer to the general apostacy of the Jewish establishment. It looks as if 9:27 indicates abominations were the reason for that determined. See Isaiah 1:13 & Isa. 66:3 for God's attitude to their offerings. That means that I should modify my understanding on this - that through Stephen God declared the temple desolate. All that then remained was the destruction within the 40 years.  

 

The other rferences are more specific.

 

Dan. 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

I understand that Dan. 11 is such an accurate prophecy of Antiochus Epiphanes activities that modernist scholars claim it is history written in Daniel's name as prophecy. 

 

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

We haven't got an inspired record of the events leading up to the final destruction in AD 70. I remember Invicta saying (I think quoting Josephus) the sacrifices were discontinued before the final siege. (I think because the priests had been killed in the fighting within Jerusalem.)

 

What we do know is that Jesus gave these signs to warn the Jerusalem Christians when to flee the city. I understand that they did when the Roman armies briefly withdrew. 

 

[MountainChristian]

What WAS it? History or yet unfulfilled prophecy? 

 

Mat. 24:¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

Luke 21:²⁰ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

²¹ Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

²² For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

 

Comparing Matthew & Luke, it is appears that the armies are involved - Roman armies with the eagle standards - which were graven images of an abomination. Lev. 11:13

 

There are 3 refs in Daniel:

 

Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the OBlation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

Should we look for something specific, or does the overspreading of abominations refer to the general apostacy of the Jewish establishment. It looks as if 9:27 indicates abominations were the reason for that determined. See Isaiah 1:13 & Isa. 66:3 for God's attitude to their offerings. That means that I should modify my understanding on this - that through Stephen God declared the temple desolate. All that then remained was the destruction within the 40 years.  

 

The other rferences are more specific.

 

Dan. 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

I understand that Dan. 11 is such an accurate prophecy of Antiochus Epiphanes activities that modernist scholars claim it is history written in Daniel's name as prophecy. 

 

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

We haven't got an inspired record of the events leading up to the final destruction in AD 70. I remember Invicta saying (I think quoting Josephus) the sacrifices were discontinued before the final siege. (I think because the priests had been killed in the fighting within Jerusalem.)

 

What we do know is that Jesus gave these signs to warn the Jerusalem Christians when to flee the city. I understand that they did when the Roman armies briefly withdrew. 

 

See there's the proof,  verse 22, all things came to an end in 70 AD. All things mean all things not some things. It was all fulfilled in 70 AD. Jesus' return was part of all things so he returned in 70 AD. 

[Genevanpreacher]

What WAS it? History or yet unfulfilled prophecy? 

 

Mat. 24:¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

Luke 21:²⁰ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

²¹ Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

²² For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

 

Comparing Matthew & Luke, it is appears that the armies are involved - Roman armies with the eagle standards - which were graven images of an abomination. Lev. 11:13

 

There are 3 refs in Daniel:

 

Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the OBlation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

Should we look for something specific, or does the overspreading of abominations refer to the general apostacy of the Jewish establishment. It looks as if 9:27 indicates abominations were the reason for that determined. See Isaiah 1:13 & Isa. 66:3 for God's attitude to their offerings. That means that I should modify my understanding on this - that through Stephen God declared the temple desolate. All that then remained was the destruction within the 40 years.  

 

The other rferences are more specific.

 

Dan. 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

I understand that Dan. 11 is such an accurate prophecy of Antiochus Epiphanes activities that modernist scholars claim it is history written in Daniel's name as prophecy. 

 

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

We haven't got an inspired record of the events leading up to the final destruction in AD 70. I remember Invicta saying (I think quoting Josephus) the sacrifices were discontinued before the final siege. (I think because the priests had been killed in the fighting within Jerusalem.)

 

What we do know is that Jesus gave these signs to warn the Jerusalem Christians when to flee the city. I understand that they did when the Roman armies briefly withdrew. 

 

See, this is one of the many places that I could quote from my bible, that would clear this up compared to the KJB.

Yet, that would 'destroy' some men's theories, and they wouldn't want that.

 

Salyan came pretty close, if not dead-on, what the 'abominable' desolation that is to be set up.

[MountainChristian]

What WAS it? History or yet unfulfilled prophecy? 

 

Mat. 24:¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

Luke 21:²⁰ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

²¹ Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

²² For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

 

Comparing Matthew & Luke, it is appears that the armies are involved - Roman armies with the eagle standards - which were graven images of an abomination. Lev. 11:13

 

There are 3 refs in Daniel:

 

Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the OBlation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

Should we look for something specific, or does the overspreading of abominations refer to the general apostacy of the Jewish establishment. It looks as if 9:27 indicates abominations were the reason for that determined. See Isaiah 1:13 & Isa. 66:3 for God's attitude to their offerings. That means that I should modify my understanding on this - that through Stephen God declared the temple desolate. All that then remained was the destruction within the 40 years.  

 

The other rferences are more specific.

 

Dan. 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

I understand that Dan. 11 is such an accurate prophecy of Antiochus Epiphanes activities that modernist scholars claim it is history written in Daniel's name as prophecy. 

 

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

We haven't got an inspired record of the events leading up to the final destruction in AD 70. I remember Invicta saying (I think quoting Josephus) the sacrifices were discontinued before the final siege. (I think because the priests had been killed in the fighting within Jerusalem.)

 

What we do know is that Jesus gave these signs to warn the Jerusalem Christians when to flee the city. I understand that they did when the Roman armies briefly withdrew. 

 

Rev 13:15 And he (Titus) had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

Titus surrounded the city, with three legions (V Macedonica, XII Fulminata, XV Apollinaris) on the western side and a fourth (X Fretensis) on the Mount of Olives to the east.

 

He put pressure on the food and water supplies of the inhabitants by allowing pilgrims to enter the city to celebrate Passover, and then refusing to allow them back out.

 

Why does the Bible record the predictions but not the fulfilments?

[beameup]

The "abomination which makes desolate" was performed in 168 BC by Antiochus Epiphanes, when he placed the idol of Jupiter in the Holy of Holies.  There will be a future "abomination which makes desolate", as it is spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14.  In these passages, the False Christ is "standing" in the Holy of Holies (holy place).  Only the High Priest is supposed to enter the Holy of Holies, and then only on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur).

In 2 Thes 2:4, Paul states that he "sits" in the Temple of God (not specifically the Holy of Holies).  This could imply that at some point, Antichrist sets up a seat or "throne" inside the Temple in Jerusalem.

[Invicta]

The "abomination which makes desolate" was performed in 168 BC by Antiochus Epiphanes, when he placed the idol of Jupiter in the Holy of Holies.  There will be a future "abomination which makes desolate", as it is spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14.  In these passages, the False Christ is "standing" in the Holy of Holies (holy place).  Only the High Priest is supposed to enter the Holy of Holies, and then only on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur).

In 2 Thes 2:4, Paul states that he "sits" in the Temple of God (not specifically the Holy of Holies).  This could imply that at some point, Antichrist sets up a seat or "throne" inside the Temple in Jerusalem.

 

 

While Josephus does say Antiochus desolated the temple, in his history of Jerusalem, he gives only two desolations, 1). By Nebuchadnezzar, and 2). by Titus.   

 

Luke tells us the the D of A was the armies surrounding Jerusalem, the only armies who surrounded Jerusalem and desolated it were those of Titus.  

[beameup]

see 1st Maccabees

The Jewish Maccabean Revolt against Antiochus IV Epiphanes 

 

Antiochus Epiphanes entered Jerusalem, vandalized the Temple, erected an idol on the altar, and desecrated its holiness with the blood of swine. Decreeing that studying Torah, OBserving the Sabbath, and circumcising Jewish boys were punishable by death, he sent Syrian overseers and soldiers to villages throughout Judea to enforce the edicts and force Jews to engage in idol worship.  This led to the revolt.

 

Everyone hearing Jesus speaking of this subject, knew exactly what he was referring to.

[Jim_Alaska]

 

Everyone hearing Jesus speaking of this subject, knew exactly what he was referring to.

 

This statement seems pretty presumptuous. Can you back it up with Scripture?

[Invicta]

see 1st Maccabees

The Jewish Maccabean Revolt against Antiochus IV Epiphanes 

 

Antiochus Epiphanes entered Jerusalem, vandalized the Temple, erected an idol on the altar, and desecrated its holiness with the blood of swine. Decreeing that studying Torah, OBserving the Sabbath, and circumcising Jewish boys were punishable by death, he sent Syrian overseers and soldiers to villages throughout Judea to enforce the edicts and force Jews to engage in idol worship.  This led to the revolt.

 

Everyone hearing Jesus speaking of this subject, knew exactly what he was referring to.

 

But he didn't desolate it in the same way Neb and Titus did.

[beameup]

But he didn't desolate it in the same way Neb and Titus did.

Antiochus Epiphanes "polluted" the sanctuary (Holy of Holies) of the Second Temple (Herod simply improved upon the 2nd Temple).

The cleansing and rededication of the 2nd Temple was performed during the reign of the Maccabees.  It became a "feast day" and

was the only "feast" that was celebrated in winter.  John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

We call this Hanukkah.

 

Clearly, there will be a Third Temple, as Paul refers to it: 2 Thess 2:4

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;

so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.  circa 50 AD

("sitting" in the Temple as opposed to "destroying" the Temple)

In Matthew 24, Jesus refers to both the destruction of the Temple (Matt 24:2 - 70 AD & 2nd Temple) and

the False Christ in the Holy of Holies, which corrupts/pollutes "abomination" (Matt 24:15 - yet future & 3rd Temple)

[Genevanpreacher]

This statement seems pretty presumptuous. Can you back it up with Scripture?

 

You would not consider the scriptures used, as real scriptures.

They are in an historical book of the Apocrypha.

1 Maccabees. (in every original printing of an English bible, up to and including the KJB.)

[Jim_Alaska]

You would not consider the scriptures used, as real scriptures.

They are in an historical book of the Apocrypha.

1 Maccabees. (in every original printing of an English bible, up to and including the KJB.)

 

GP, I was expressly speaking to this statement:

"Everyone hearing Jesus speaking of this subject, knew exactly what he was referring to." Not his entire post.
 

[Genevanpreacher]

GP, I was expressly speaking to this statement:

"Everyone hearing Jesus speaking of this subject, knew exactly what he was referring to." Not his entire post.
 

 

Oh.

Sorry, ding-a-ling alert!