Here's A Question

[KnocKnock]

The latter rain teaching is an imposed on scripture by the Pentecostal/charismatic fraternity.  James is describing that we should be patient for the coming of the Lord as the farmer waits patiently for the latter rain.

​I will disagree with you [in charity, 1 Corinthians 13] on the "latter rain", based upon the texts as given in the KJB throughout, including the context of James [for notice that it is the Husbandman [the Father Himself, that waits; "my Father is the husbandman." [John 15:1]; "until he receive the early and latter rain." [James 5:7], which then follows with our own waiting ["Be ye also patient.." [James 5:8] ] for the rains to come before the 2nd Advent of Jesus Christ]], however, that is not presently my main reason for responding to brother 2Tim215, which originally was to answer his question, from the KJB, but first by giving a brief summation.

Yet, to briefly address the matter, "the latter rain" teaching, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, even again, as the "early" at Pentecost does not originate with the Pentecostal, neither Charismatic movements, neither of which I am part of.

Before the "latter rains" can come, first there must be clouds out of the drought, and the clouds only come through the favour of God:

Proverbs 16:15 KJB - In the light of the king's countenance [is] life; and his favour [is] as a cloud of the latter rain.

Psalm 102:13 KJB - Thou shalt arise, [and] have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.

Proverbs 19:12 KJB - The king's wrath [is] as the roaring of a lion; but his favour [is] as dew upon the grass.

Grass are people [2 Kings 19:26; Job 5:25; Psalms 37:2; 92:7; 103:15; Isaiah 40:6; 1 Peter 1:24; Revelation 8:7; 9:4; etc.]

But before that, repentance is needful, even as it was in the days of Elijah:

Jeremiah 3:3 KJB - Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

Haggai 1:9 KJV - Ye looked for much, and, lo, [it came] to little; and when ye brought [it] home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith the LORD of hosts. Because of mine house that [is] waste, and ye run every man unto his own house.

Haggai 1:10 KJV - Therefore the heaven over you is stayed from dew, and the earth is stayed [from] her fruit.

Haggai 1:11 KJV - And I called for a drought upon the land, and upon the mountains, and upon the corn, and upon the new wine, and upon the oil, and upon [that] which the ground bringeth forth, and upon men, and upon cattle, and upon all the labour of the hands.

Amos 4:7 KJB - And also I have withholden the rain from you, when [there were] yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one city, and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered.

This verse is key to us.

Yet God shall come down upon His people, even the Holy Spirit in fullness and power like never before:

Psalm 72:6 KJB - He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers [that] water the earth.

Hosea 14:5 KJB - I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.

When this happens, his remnant shall be in the midst of the world and many people:

Micah 5:7 KJB - And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

Therefore, there are set times and seasons to ask, but conditions must be met first:

Zechariah 10:1 KJB - Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; [so] the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.

Joel 2:23 KJB - Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first [month].

The rain will come upon all, but many will resist the love of God unto their destruction:

Matthew 7:25 KJB - And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Matthew 7:27 KJB - And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

But the righteous will do as Job, and I recommend reading all of Job 29 with Isaiah 58; Hebrews 4; Isaiah 8 & 56 etc, for something is to be done by God's people...:

Deuteronomy 32:2 KJB - My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Job 29:22 KJB - After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them.

Job 29:23 KJB - And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide [as] for the latter rain.

Thus as it was at Pentecost, this time much greater [see also Revelation 5:6; Acts 1-2]:

Psalm 133:1 KJB - [[A Song of degrees of David.]] Behold, how good and how pleasant [it is] for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Psalm 133:2 KJB - [It is] like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, [even] Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

Psalm 133:3 KJB - As the dew of Hermon, [and as the dew] that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, [even] life for evermore.

And so on... there is of course a great deal more, but there is the outline of it.  Can you see it brother?

[KnocKnock]

However, back to 2Tim215 original question on the matter of "the last days" and "the last day", etc.

"the last days":

Acts 2:17 KJB - And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 2:18 KJB - And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

[Peter is quoting Joel directly, whom is referencing other things]

Proverbs 1:23 KJB - Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Isaiah 44:3 KJB - For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Joel 2:28 KJB - And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joel 2:29 KJB - And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Zechariah 12:10 KJB - And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

2 Timothy 3:1 KJB - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Hebrews 1:2 KJB - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

James 5:3 KJB - Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

2 Peter 3:3 KJB - Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

and so on.

"the last day":

John 6:39 KJB - And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40 KJB - And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 KJB - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 KJB - Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 KJB - Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48 KJB - He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The Great Week of God, is 7,000 Years. 6,000 Years and the final 7th 1,000 as the Millennium.  This follows the pattern from Genesis 1 onward and throughout Scripture.  Scripture says:

Psalm 90:4 KJB - For a thousand years in thy sight [are but] as yesterday when it is past, and [as] a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8 KJB - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Please take careful notice of "with" the Lord.

2 Peter 3:9 KJB - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 KJB - But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Since Creation, it had passed 4,000 years and Christ Jesus came the First Time.  This means that the first 4 days "with" God had passed, Adam having died [Genesis 2:17] in the first day "with" God, at 930 years old [Genesis 5:5]. Thus in the time of Christ Jesus, the first half of the Great Week "with" God was over [Days 1-4], and the "last days" of that Great Week were already in motion, even from the time of Christ Jesus.  There were only 2 days left "with" God, before the final and "last day" "with" God, being "the day of the LORD", which is the final 1,000 years [Millennium] of Revelation 20, etc.  This is also how the devil knew he had but a "short time" [Revelation 12:12] left...  This is how Paul, Peter and others could make the statements they did in regards the "last days" [2,000 years [days 5 & 6 "with" God], and the final 1,000 years [the 7th Day]] and yet still square with their other statements on the great apostasy that was to take place and of those events in between, before the final events, including Daniel 8:13-14; among the others therein.

This is why John on the Isle of Patmos could write what he did in regard the 7th Day of the LORD they God in Revelation 1:10 [Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; 31:15; Leviticus 23:3; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; Isaiah 56:6; 58:13; 66:23; Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5; etc].  The week on earth [6 days and the 7th of rest], was but a miniature of the Great Week "with" God.  This pattern is seen throughout the Scriptures:

Just as the week is 6 Days and the 7th of Rest [Genesis 2:2-3; Exodus 20:8-11, etc], so too is to be the 1000 years, a Sabbath of Rest in Heaven, for the Gospel has been preached in the world for 6000 years.

Just as the Land itself was to be worked for 6 years and the 7th year it was to be left alone, so too is to be the 1000 years, a Sabbath of Rest in Heavenly Canaan - The Promised Land. [Exodus 23:10-11]

Just as the slaves worked for 6 years, they were to be set free in the 7th year, so too is it to be in the 1000 years, a Sabbath of Rest in Heaven. [Exodus 21:2; Deuteronomy 15:12]

Just as Moses waited at the base of the Mountain 6 days, and on the 7th he was then called up into the Mount, into the clouds, so too shall we be called upwards. [Exodus 24:16; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17]

Just as Joash was hid in the Temple 6 years, while Athaliah [daughter of Jezebel] reigned, and in the 7th year he was crowned King and came out with an army to slay her, so too will Christ Jesus come as KING of Kings and LORD of Lords and He shall reign, and slay the wicked. [2 Kings 1:3; 2 Chronicles 22:12]

Just as Jesus and the three Disciples [Peter, James and John] after 6 days went up the Mountain of Transfiguration, they saw Jesus transfigured before them standing with Moses and Elijah [the Law and the Prophets, the Resurrected Dead and the Translated Living, types of those to be on Earth at the 2nd Advent; Matthew 17, Mark 9; Luke 9; 2 Peter 1:16].

[beameup]

The events of Acts 2 were a "partial fulfillment" of Joel's prophecy.  The fulfillment of Joel's prophecy has been "interrupted" (postponed), but will be fulfilled during the Tribulation after the Body of Christ is taken from the earth and the Jewish Sect of the Nazarenes returns, preaching the Gospel of the (coming) Kingdom, the return of Messiah.  "Tongues" are not for the Body of Christ.

[Invicta]

​I will disagree with you [in charity, 1 Corinthians 13] on the "latter rain", based upon the texts as given in the KJB throughout, including the context of James [for notice that it is the Husbandman [the Father Himself, that waits; "my Father is the husbandman." [John 15:1]; "until he receive the early and latter rain." [James 5:7], which then follows with our own waiting ["Be ye also patient.." [James 5:8] ] for the rains to come before the 2nd Advent of Jesus Christ]], however, that is not presently my main reason for responding to brother 2Tim215, which originally was to answer his question, from the KJB, but first by giving a brief summation.

 

​No.  The context of  [James 5:7], is regarding us patiently waiting for the coming of the Lord.  And the husbandman is an example for us.

[Potatochip]

1John 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

The following is the opening lines of The NOBle Lesson of the Waldenses written about AD1160  <  highly interesting.  Where is that to be found?

​

[Invicta]

​

​It may be found on a number of sites.  Here is one, only because it was the first that came up on Google.

 

http://www.reformedreader.org/noblalecon.htm

Edited April 1, 2015 by Invicta
Spelling

[Potatochip]

I like to get to the right place.  Thank you for answering.  Interesting.

[1Timothy115]

No it doesen't - Peter (Acts 2:14-21) makes it very clear that the prophecy of Joel was the explanation of what they were currently seeing at pentacost. So where is the "clear" distinction that these would only happen "before the notable day of the lord" if they happened at pentacost and the notable day of the lord hasen't come yet? For almost 2000 yrs now?

It's is logical that those mentioned in vrs 19&20 have not come about but I am talking about vrs 17&18 - there is no clear distinction that these have ended nor come to an end. It simply states that this is what would happen in the last days, of which we are still living in. Or are we? How many last days can there be?

Why do we teach that prophecy etc has come to an end? Or did the apostles not know what they were talking about here and litterally thought they were living in the last days and that the day of the lord would come about in there life time?

I'm sure you know this, but here's a reminder. I think you're leaving out the difference between the timing of an eternal God and the timing of man.