The Bible Only?

[AVBibleBeliever]

I put this in the IFB lounge forum and it has not even been looked at let alone commented on so I am putting it here because I think it might be relevent.

 

A question: Did God give Solomon wisdom and understanding through Solomon studying or through miraculous intervention?   To put it another way: Did Solomon study the works of other men to attain his knowledge of trees and other plants, of beasts, fowls, creeping things, and fishes or did he get it all from scripture, or did God just put it all in Solomon's head.

Some scripture (just a small part) dealing with Solomon, knowledge and wisdom:

I believe that God gave him the heart of search things out but not by the works of other men. 

 

Because his wisdom exceeded the wisdom of the men of the east does not mean Solomon himself studied their works.  More than likely it was people that knew the writings of the men of the  east that informed him that his wisdom exceeded it and so it was inspired by God to record that but God already knew his wisdom would be above the rest because Solomon trusted God above men to reveal to him wisdom because he asked for wisdom.  He studied and possessed the knowledge of husbandry, horticulture, mathematics, Weather dynamics, and biological and astronomical sciences.  You can find references to these in his Biblical writings.

 

 Eccl 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books [there is] no end; and much study [is] a weariness of the flesh.

It was Solomon who studied hard and was the one to write many books and these books were carried into all the lands.  Later from these lands you can find Solomons writing were some what plagiarized.  Just like the stories of Hercules were plagiarized from the Bible stories of Samson that were recorded many many years before the Greeks wrote of Hercules.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Ok, let's cut to the chase here. Yes they, we, us, everyone, reads other books.

That is not why I am saying these statements.

What I am saying, is that we can, have, and maybe should, survive just on God.

Maybe that would cure our society of it's woes upon us, and our children. If we were

so inebriated with the words of God as they are written in the Bible, maybe we would

be stronger, and the world would not be 'so' hopelessly lost.

I have read (yes I said it!) books that mentioned how some men of God centuries ago

would spend hours praying, and hours reading the word of God, and then those books

talk about the great 'revivals' in their regular services that they would have; just because

those men of God immersed themselves in God and his word.

I think it would be worth it to tell our next generation the importance of 'just God' and put

away men's writings.

Do I read other Christian men's Books sure I do.

 

One of the men I like to read is Oliver B Green.  I read other too but more time than not I find they are at time correcting the English with the Greek and that bugs me.  the AV/KJV is clear if one studies out the English word you can learn far more than going to the Greek.

 

For example:  2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.  Every man I hear preach this is either following another or go to the Greek to change it to Hardship.  But the word hardness is very interesting it is used in all its uses out side of this one in referring to a condition of the heart.  Anyone in military or police work know there is one thing you must do when doing your duty is you cannot let your heart get in the way or you lose.  Also if you are the law enforcement whether soldier of police the people who come up against you are hard to your message of the law and your purpose of upholding it.

 

We must endure that hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.  some people are hard to the message of the gospel and we endure that sometimes we must keep our heart in check and not become hard to those who don't accept the message of the cross.  We must endure hardness of different kinds just like a soldier or police officer would.

 

Now it may be a hardship to endure but why limit the word to hardship when it has much more for us than that?

 

Can you see what I am saying.  better to stick to the word of God than those of even some well meaning men of God who could be in error or limiting the meaning of God's word.
 

[Genevanpreacher]

Do I read other Christian men's Books sure I do.

 

One of the men I like to read is Oliver B Green.  I read other too but more time than not I find they are at time correcting the English with the Greek and that bugs me.  the AV/KJV is clear if one studies out the English word you can learn far more than going to the Greek.

 

For example:  2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.  Every man I hear preach this is either following another or go to the Greek to change it to Hardship.  But the word hardness is very interesting it is used in all its uses out side of this one in referring to a condition of the heart.  Anyone in military or police work know there is one thing you must do when doing your duty is you cannot let your heart get in the way or you lose.  Also if you are the law enforcement whether soldier of police the people who come up against you are hard to your message of the law and your purpose of upholding it.

 

We must endure that hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.  some people are hard to the message of the gospel and we endure that sometimes we must keep our heart in check and not become hard to those who don't accept the message of the cross.  We must endure hardness of different kinds just like a soldier or police officer would.

 

Now it may be a hardship to endure but why limit the word to hardship when it has much more for us than that?

 

Can you see what I am saying.  better to stick to the word of God than those of even some well meaning men of God who could be in error or limiting the meaning of God's word.
 

 

Exactly, there AVBB! Finally a positive response that makes sense.

[Invicta]

I'll have to go back and dig into my stuff a little to recall and give a well-explained answer (it's been a year or two since I encountered his stuff with any depth). One thing I do recall is that he is considered the father of amillennialism, which asserts no earthly reign of Christ, because he saw the one-thousand-year figure as symbolic rather than literal. When I can muster enough time at home I'll be happy to find some more detailed examples for you.

 

 

Thanks for taking time to reply.  I do appreciate that.

 

Most people from before and immediately after the reformation seemed to belive in a literal 1000 years. But not a future 1000 years, but either 1000 years from the birth of Christ as the bishops and monks, taught.  When as the year 1000 began, many handed all their property over to the church or the monastaries, as they thought the world would end that year.  When nothing happened the clamoured for their belongings back, but the bishops and monks or prOBably just the monks as bishops were often illiterate, had tied it all up legal like and there was no way they could get their goods back. Others taught that the 1000 years went from pentecost, and others from thought from about AD96 when the Revelation was written, till the coming of the Turks just before 1100.  Luther believed that for a while, but may have changed his beliefs later as many others did as they read the scriptures.  Remember scripture stud was a lost art at the reformation.

 

I have never been a fan of Tertullian. He was a Montanist, which were ardent legalists that strangely also had a lot of practices similar to Pentecostals today. Generally speaking, not someone I want to take theological input from, though some of his early apologetic writings were good.

 

Tertullian was a Montanist, agreed, but I believe that was in his later life, his apology was a great writing.  Strangely, Caroll in The Trail of Blood, considers the montanists in the line of Baptists.  .

 

I don't refer to them as Church Fathers, but as Early Christian writers.

[TheSword]

I don't refer to them as Church Fathers, but as Early Christian writers.

 

I agree with much of what you have to say, particularly regarding Tertullian. I know a lot of people like Caroll's The Trail of Blood, but I really think a lot of it is a stretch as well. One thing I would add to your millennial discussion is that the shift in thought from a soon-coming of Christ in terms of premillennialism appears to have held strong through the first 3-4 centuries. After that (around the time of Augustine), there was a definite shift to what you described because people grappled for a way to fit their current understanding into the concept of the millennium when they hadn't yet seen the Second Coming. What I see from my study of the issue (which I would like to study more to be honest) is that the shift to premillennialism (and associated views of the rapture) are a return to that ideology rather than a new concept.

[TheSword]

Now it may be a hardship to endure but why limit the word to hardship when it has much more for us than that?

 

Can you see what I am saying.  better to stick to the word of God than those of even some well meaning men of God who could be in error or limiting the meaning of God's word.
 

 

Because I believe God, and His Word by extension, don't change (Heb 13:8; Mal 3:6) and His truth remains the same regardless of how a language developes/changes over time and so we are not free to choose any definition we want because that leads to various strange doctrines (Heb 13:9) like Pentecostals babbling unintelligably, Lutherans pouring water all over babies' heads, Calvinists teaching double-predestination, or Catholics claiming the Pope is Peter's successor and has the authority of Christ. I believe originally intended meaning matters and we're to make valid applications from it.

 

I see what you're saying, I just disagree with it because I think it plays a little too fast and loose with the Word of God and leaves biblical truths at the whims of ever-changing human communication.

[ASongOfDegrees]

. I believe originally intended meaning matters and we're to make valid applications from it.

 

 

Brother, you might as well toss out the KJV and read your originals.

[TheSword]

Brother, you might as well toss out the KJV and read your originals.

 

Why? You don't think the original meaning is discernable in English? I thought you had faith in the KJV....Or is it that you don't care what the original meaning was and prefer whatever meaning you can muster from a wide range of disparate definitions? Either way, I don't really care anymore. I'm all done dealing with you. Adding "Brother" to a snarky comment doesn't make it kind or respectful. It makes it sarcastic and hypocritical.

 

ἡ χάρις του Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χρίστου μετά σού.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Why? You don't think the original meaning is discernable in English? I thought you had faith in the KJV....Or is it that you don't care what the original meaning was and prefer whatever meaning you can muster from a wide range of disparate definitions? Either way, I don't really care anymore. I'm all done dealing with you. Adding "Brother" to a snarky comment doesn't make it kind or respectful. It makes it sarcastic and hypocritical.

 

ἡ χάρις του Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χρίστου μετά σού.

Adding a little Greek at the end of your comment smacks of elitism.

 

The prOBlem with you is the KJV is not good enough. So why beat around the bush and waste your time with it? Just go with the originals full steam ahead because that's where you are heading anyways.

 

Oh, by the way, most heresies and "strange doctrines" don't not come from the meaning of English words but rather from people messing around with the "original languages". 

[TheSword]

Adding a little Greek at the end of your comment smacks of elitism.

 

Hello Pot. My name is Kettle, and I think you got your black all over me because yeah...I did stoop to your level a little bit with that. Allow me to translate that usual ending of a Pauline epistle for you: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you."

 

 

The prOBlem with you is the KJV is not good enough. So why beat around the bush and waste your time with it? Just go with the originals full steam ahead because that's where you are heading anyways.

 

Oh, by the way, most heresies and "strange doctrines" don't not come from the meaning of English words but rather from people messing around with the "original languages". 

 

Prove that...any of it...

[ASongOfDegrees]

Hello Pot. My name is Kettle, and I think you got your black all over me because yeah...I did stoop to your level a little bit with that. Allow me to translate that usual ending of a Pauline epistle for you: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you."

 

 

 

Prove that...any of it...

I am in awe of your knowledge of the originals. 

 

The fact that there are 250 English versions of the bible since 1900 and the unlimited heresies that have sprung up since that time (the modern day Charismatic movement itself began a year after the ASV came to America) should be enough to tell you about your lovely original languages and the mess they have caused.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Because I believe God, and His Word by extension, don't change (Heb 13:8; Mal 3:6) and His truth remains the same regardless of how a language developes/changes over time and so we are not free to choose any definition we want because that leads to various strange doctrines (Heb 13:9) like Pentecostals babbling unintelligably, Lutherans pouring water all over babies' heads, Calvinists teaching double-predestination, or Catholics claiming the Pope is Peter's successor and has the authority of Christ. I believe originally intended meaning matters and we're to make valid applications from it.

 

I see what you're saying, I just disagree with it because I think it plays a little too fast and loose with the Word of God and leaves biblical truths at the whims of ever-changing human communication.

I used only my English AV/KJV Bible to learn the definition of hardness.  You nor anyone else, could ever, by using the English AV/KJV Bible to define the word hardness, come to the conclusion that the English word Hardness means hardship by the simple English AV/KJV definition.

 

The Meaning of the English word as found in the AV/KJV never changed over time it is still the same as it was 400 plus years ago.  Try using the English AV/KJV Bible to define the English words found in it without any outside source and you might just be surprised at what you learn.